Microsoft Surface Tablet

[CyberNerd]

Apple would/should be first on that chopping block, look at the whole locked in iOS system.

 

 

Apple will be screwed

[Arthur]

Very much the opposite - they're removing any code that would even let you hack one back in

Not actually true. Microsoft are removing the old Start Menu code, but third-parties are free to create replacement Start Menu's.

 

So generally my 'evil' list works like this:

Capita > RM > Pearson > Microsoft > Apple > other hardware vendors > Google > Redhat

Microsoft deserve a bit more credit IMO. They contribute a lot to open source. Just a few examples: Windows Installer XML (WiX), Linux and FreeBSD integration components for Hyper-V, the PowerShell language spec (and all of the other specs listed under the Open Specification Promise), Office Open XML, improvements to NFS during interoperability bake-a-thons, the Windows port of Redis, CodePlex Project Hosting etc. etc.

 

Btw, you forgot Adobe and Oracle in your list. Pure evil!

 

Such as? It's open source, so I don't know which fees you could possibly mean...

Android itself may be open source, but device manufacturers still have to pay large sums of money to Google to license their apps. See How Google controls Android for more details.

 

Google also take a 30% cut from app sales and make several $billion from mobile ads.

 

To achieve Android "certification" handset manufacturers have to include services such as Google search, maps, YouTube and other functions. Some companies, including Amazon, have declined to do this. (Source)

 

If my device is compatible, does it automatically have access to Google Play and branding?

Google Play is a service operated by Google. Achieving compatibility is a prerequisite for obtaining access to the Google Play software and branding. Device manufacturers should contact Google to obtain access to Google Play.

 

If I am not a manufacturer, how can I get Google Play?

Google Play is only licensed to handset manufacturers shipping devices. For questions about specific cases, contact [email protected].

 

How can I get access to the Google apps for Android, such as Maps?

The Google apps for Android, such as YouTube, Google Maps and Navigation, Gmail, and so on are Google properties that are not part of Android, and are licensed separately. (Source)

[Arthur]

Microsoft rebrands original Surface table-based touchscreen as PixelSense

[CyberNerd]

Microsoft deserve a bit more credit IMO. They contribute a lot to open source. Just a few examples: Windows Installer XML (WiX), Linux and FreeBSD integration components for Hyper-V, the PowerShell language spec (and all of the other specs listed under the Open Specification Promise), Office Open XML, improvements to NFS during interoperability bake-a-thons, the Windows port of Redis, CodePlex Project Hosting etc. etc.

 

 

That's why they are not top of the list!

MS do contribute some stuff, but honestly Office OpenXML - that is such a joke, there isn't an application in existence that can use it because it references so much propriety MS for backwards compatibility. The spec was written entirely to kibosh the open document foundation.

 

I know they also contributed some kernel patches to get Windows running on KVM recently, and they use linux on much of the skype backend. but

They contribute a lot to open source

???

A company that size do not contribute a lot to open source however you measure it.

[PiqueABoo]

Not actually true

 

Consider the (original) source.

 

It was also seriously unfeasible: To do that you could either stop one process starting another which couldn't possibly happen, or perhaps take away the shell32 API for talking to LNK files so future start menu code can't find out what to run (pointless because you could write your own code to pick a LNK file apart with or without reading the MS spec for them).

[Arthur]

That's why they are not top of the list!

I didn't say they had to be at the top. Perhaps they should swap places with Apple though.

 

A company that size do not contribute a lot to open source however you measure it.

Is there a certain number of open source contributions MS have to make before they would be classed as 'good' (or is your ranking just arbitrary)?

[PiqueABoo]

I think a better question is does the open source have to be for a particular platform/cause? Pragmatically MS have contributed an enormous amount of non-trivial examples/samples that have often gone directly into open source projects for stuff in MS-land.

[Arthur]

Surface advert and keynote videos for those interested.

 

http://youtu.be/dpzu3HM2CIo?hd=1

 

[Arthur]

I think a better question is does the open source have to be for a particular platform/cause?

I was under the impression that all open source software was good whatever the cause? Perhaps not then?

[SYNACK]

I was under the impression that all open source software was good whatever the cause? Perhaps not then?

 

Open source discussions quickly turn into 'the only true scottsman' debates where it decends into levels of freedom and ethics and hurt feelings. The truest 'open' source would be so simple that everyone could understand it without training and run on thin air but that kind of stuff does not exist hence providing more fuel for the arguments of openness vs openness vs freedom let alone bringing in people who dare to charge for their work.

[enjay]

The idea that Google is free is an interesting one. Okay, so we don't pay them directly, but they do get our money - x% cut on all app sales, royalties from hardware manufacturers in order to run Android (presumably a two-tier thing, which is why some cheaper products don't have the real Google Play market but their own one or the Amazon one), plus of course whatever they're making from selling my browsing activities (whether personal or grouped/trending information), etc. and of course the money which companies pay them for Search Engine Optimisation.

[enjay]

I do think it is important to judge a company on its ethics, and I frequently use ethics, including environmental standards, when selecting companies. Unfortunately, I do think it is the case that you cannot find a totally clean company in this sector, so must instead look for the cleanest/least dirty.

 

Absolutely true that in an ideal world, everything would be free and we would all share our bread with the hungry, but the reality is that widescale development and uptake can only be driven by the companies who already have money and would like more. Microsoft and Apple only became the size they are because they wanted lots of money. Yes, they fund this free project and that free project, and give discounts into education, but let's not pretend that cheaper products in education is driven by much other than wanting market saturation and users with product-specific knowledge driving the commercial and consumer users to buy full price stuff.

 

And in what I suspect with be the first of many cynical comments today, let's not forget that saying "we gave £2m to fund this open source project" or "we spent £1m helping old ladies across the street" could be considered as a marketing expense.

[flyinghaggis]

Back on topic ....

 

I think pricing is going to be the critical factor here. There's a real sense that when it comes to tablets we're entering a brave new world where mid range models can be had for £200 and "premium" kit like ipad's & tegra 3 equipped Android tablets goes for £300-400.

 

As other have said MS needs to be careful here as these are the expectations joe public has when it comes to tablets as things stand just now. If they want punters to pony up nearly a grand for a Windows 8 Pro tablet it had better be awesome! I also wonder how many people will want to buy a Windows 8 RT tablet once they realise it doesn't run any exisitng Windows x86 applications?

 

Battery life /pricing are two key factors for schools where users typically wont be able to charge the devices thoughout the day. It's going to be a hard for us to sell the concept of them to teachers/management if Windows x86 tablets only have a 4-5 hour battery life and cost upwards of £600 when current expectations are that tablets should cost half as much and run for twice as long.

Edited June 20, 2012 by flyinghaggis

[flyinghaggis]

Actually I've just sat down to watch the surface keynote speech and I've gotta say I really love the look of that windows 8 pro tablet! Ive still got reservations about battery life and pricing but if they can crack those 2 issues then they could really be onto something! If that kickstand and type cover work as well as they appear to they might just have rendered traditional laptop form factor obsolete overnight.

 

To quote a certain other company I'd even go so far as to say it might even be "magical and revolutionary"

 

The only problem I see with it is that I'm not sure how well it will work if you want to sit with it on your lap on the couch? The kickstand doesnt look like it will work the other way round to raise the tablet at a comfortable angle for typing on the on screen keyboard plus that would put the keyboard at the wrong side of the device?

Edited June 20, 2012 by flyinghaggis

[sonofsanta]

Pricing rumour: at least $600 for the ARM tablet and $800 for the x86 tablet (which after tax and general UK price-increases, will probably pan out to be the same in sterling as it is in dollars, e.g. the Kindle (which is actually more in £ than $ (and yes, I need to stop abusing nested brackets)))

[Norphy]

e.g. the Kindle (which is actually more in £ than $ (and yes, I need to stop abusing nested brackets)))

 

Oh for goodness sake, not this again. The $79 Kindle is the Kindle "with special offers", i.e. adverts on its lock screen. We don't get that here, we get the one which doesn't have them and that costs $109 stateside. That works out at about £70 at today's exchange rates and that's without VAT which would bring it up to £84. Take into account duty and import fees etc and the £89 is actually looking like a fair price.

[sonofsanta]

Oh for goodness sake, not this again. The $79 Kindle is the Kindle "with special offers", i.e. adverts on its lock screen. We don't get that here, we get the one which doesn't have them and that costs $109 stateside. That works out at about £70 at today's exchange rates and that's without VAT which would bring it up to £84. Take into account duty and import fees etc and the £89 is actually looking like a fair price.

 

D'oh... I didn't think it looked right. It's not like the ad-version is news to me, either.

 

GPUs may have been a better example, as the numbers are often very close on them (particularly at launch), but they seem to be a bit fairer at the moment comapring ebuyer/newegg. Either there's no good launch example at the moment or things are starting to work out a little more fairly and the tablets might actually be reasonably priced. We can but hope!

[enjay]

Oh for goodness sake, not this again. The $79 Kindle is the Kindle "with special offers", i.e. adverts on its lock screen. We don't get that here, we get the one which doesn't have them and that costs $109 stateside.

 

Except with the US one, you can lend or even give Kindle books to a friend and borrow them from the Library. Not so for the UK release.

[Arthur]

The pen looks good...

 

The Patent behind Microsoft's Digital Pen for Surface Tablets

 

http://i.imgur.com/5c8Bv.jpg

[rich_tech]

If the price is right, I would definitely consider getting one before an ipad, I dont imagine any massive hassles with this device with things like file management from watching the videos, as its a windows PC through and through, I dont think much of apple forcing you down itunes for anything to do with an ipad, (that being said apple may change their tune on this and allow direct file downloading to the device).

[enjay]

If the price is right, I would definitely consider getting one before an ipad, I dont imagine any massive hassles with this device with things like file management from watching the videos, as its a windows PC through and through

Agreed. There are some nice educational apps for iPad but there are more for Windows, not least of which are all the ones we've already bought, and a Windows 8 tablet should slot into our network much more easily than an iPad.

 

(Some of) the extra cost can easily be justified when you start pricing up the alternative, i.e. iPad + way of sharing files + way of deploying software + management system + new apps for all subjects > cost of Surface tablet.

[rich_tech]

I just hope they dont weigh in with a price much over an ipad, its instantly non-competitive then when people consider on price alone (I know management of them is another issue entirely)

[sidewinder]

I just hope they dont weigh in with a price much over an ipad, its instantly non-competitive then when people consider on price alone (I know management of them is another issue entirely)

 

Yeah it will almost certainly flop if it is priced above an iPad, as that is currently considered the premium, best of it's kind device. However good it is, it needs to compete on price.

[enjay]

However good it is, it needs to compete on price.

The Surface will almost certainly be more expensive because of what it contains that an iPad doesn't - the very slick case and keyboard, for example, would cost over £100 separately (if the equivalent iPad and Galaxy Tab ones are a guide), plus the "hidden costs" of actually getting an iPad to play ball with the school's existing Windows network, followed by the complete overhaul of applications. I think that if the project is taken as a whole, then the Surface will actually be cost-effective.

 

As a consumer, I think my Galaxy Tab is awesome, but I don't think it is a business-ready product; my wife has an 11" netbook which is, in my opinion, the best of both worlds. Until the Surface comes out, that is!

[edutech4schools]

Yeah it will almost certainly flop if it is priced above an iPad

 

I would pay more for it. It not only does more but is not a locked in product. I would think they will be pricing along the lines of ultrabooks which start at £800 and go up to £1800.