[sims] Timetabling - who does yours?

[Keith-Johnson]

If T6 still proves too complex and there's no training available you could look at TimeTabler but you'll still need to understand the basics of T6 as it will be imported into there.

 

No, that's not correct. TimeTabler exports directly into SIMS .net, using the same import wizard [currmatch.exe] that Nova-T6 uses.

If you use TimeTabler you don't need T6 at all.

[Keith-Johnson]

Timetabling!

 

That's summat I have been doing for about 30 years! Firstly by hand - pencil, paper, forceps and magnetic strips on a foolscap size, steel metal sheet. There wasn't such a thing as a computer then!

 

Actually there was. The first version of TimeTabler was in 1981, on a Commodore PET ...followed by a version on the BBC computer the following year.

It ran in machine code for speed, ...but memory was so tight in those machines that the Automatic Scheduling part had to be loaded separately from the Printouts part. How times have changed!

[Sivadam]

Ok Keith. Let's just say I was a lot quicker than any machine that was around at that time!

 

I was actually complimenting your program to others too!

Edited June 1, 2012 by Sivadam

[speckytecky]

Fair doos - not much point in a poll then. The flavour I'm picking up from the replies is Timetabling is usually the province of a SMT member (frequently the Deputy Head) and as such on the small numbers of pupils and staff we have should be relatively easy to run with T6 but if it's proving difficult we could use Free trial : timetable software ... for timetabling school timetables ... for easier scheduling. and from there import into T6 / SIMS?

Not sure what you'll gain from a poll. What exactly do you want to find out. Most systems that need a timetable will have some sort of package and it's usually run by a dedicated person. Too complex and confusing to have too many fingers in the same pot.

If T6 still proves too complex and there's no training available you could look at Timetabler but you'll still need to understand the basics of T6 as it will be imported into there.

[vikpaw]

Yep, that about sums it up. And i was incorrect about where it imports. Timetabler goes straight to SIMS, so you can bypass T6 if you want to. Sorry, been a long time since i had to deal with it. My first action was to ensure we switched over to Nova T straight away!

 

If I recall correctly, there was also a handy Cover module which we used to use.

 

Don't dismiss Nova altogether though, you might find you get used to it. Give it a try, you can make as many different files as you want to play with. If you're setting up next year, you can even send them back to SIMS to see how they'll look. Play with a dummy setup and try to make the typical changes you are asked to make.

 

Has the whole process been explained to you? Teacher / structural changes are in NovaT, student class allocations are done in SIMS. So class memberships can be done in SIMS without having to go into Nova.

[Keith-Johnson]

The flavour I'm picking up from the replies is Timetabling is usually the province of a SMT member (frequently the Deputy Head) and as such on the small numbers of pupils and staff we have should be relatively easy...

 

Yes, the Timetabler is usually a Deputy Head or a Head of Department [often Maths or Physics]. Occasionally it's done by a team of people, which has advantages & disadvantages. Timetabling is mainly about problem-solving but it's also about diplomacy & negotiation, so the Timetabler needs to have some status in the school.

 

There's a myth that big schools are always harder to timetable than small schools. Big schools have much more data to handle, but small schools may have a disproportionate number of part-timers, and staff teaching 2nd/3rd/4th subjects.

 

And just because the timetable was easy (or hard) last year, doesn't mean it will be the same this year [it depends on the conflicts caused by the particular arrangement of staffing each year]. That's all part of the drama (and fascination) of timetabling.

 

 

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Edited June 2, 2012 by Keith-Johnson

[s1monb]

Don't use SIMS, but we have a member of our SLT who puts the bones of the timetable together manually then leaves the rest to me (Data Manager) to finish off.

 

It works quite well, and as we are a reasonably large secondary Academy on a two-week timetable it can get a bit complex at times. We don't like "automatic" timetabling (letting software do it for us), much prefer a manual approach as it gives a better end product and allows you to get a feel for the timetable as you build it.

[Keith-Johnson]

we have a member of our SLT who puts the bones of the timetable together manually...

 

The snag is that doing it manually it is possible to construct a timetable which won't actually work when term begins. For example, you know that part-timer Mrs Jones doesn't teach on Fridays, and you remember this well at the beginning ...but later, in looking for 'musical-chairs' moves to solve a problem, you find a solution, are delighted with it ...and don't realise until September that you have accidentally used Mrs Jones on Friday. A timetabling program won't allow you to do that ...once you've told it that Mrs Jones isn't in school on Fridays, it doesn't forget.

Similarly, it's very easy to accidentally double-book a teacher when working manually, so that he's expected to be in two places at once ...again a timetabling program won't allow you to do that.

 

Another limitation of manual timetabling is that in looking for 'musical-chairs' moves to solve a problem, it is possible, manually, to find 2-step moves, 3-step moves, 4-step moves ...but it is increasingly difficult ...and tedious. A modern timetabling program can find up to 16-step moves for you, and quickly. So your time is spent only in judging which is the best musical-chairs move to use.

 

There are other advantages of using a computer, too many to mention here.

 

 

We don't like "automatic" timetabling (letting software do it for us), much prefer a manual approach as it gives a better end product and allows you to get a feel for the timetable as you build it.

 

Yes I agree absolutely ...for the timetable that you are going to 'impose' on your colleagues. It needs to involve the judgement & wisdom of a human being, working interactively with a computer.

But automatic scheduling is invaluable for doing 'What if...?' investigations. For example, what if we want to add an extra Maths set in Year 8, what if we want to change the number of options in Year 9, etc. With automatic scheduling you can investigate the effects of such changes while you drink a cup of coffee.

 

 

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Edited June 4, 2012 by Keith-Johnson

[s1monb]

Hi Keith

 

I couldn't agree more with what you've said.

 

I should have been clearer when I said "manually". There's no way I could do a timetable for a 1150 roll school in a traditional manual way, it would drive me mad and take me a lifetime!

 

The member of SLT does manually timetable a few key areas, then I use some timetabling software, inputting the various restrictions that you mention and then place his timetable into the system to check it, then build the rest of the timetable on top of that.

 

I don't like the "one click" timetable builder-type option, as you lose the personal touch, so I do a version of "manual" timetabling, but with the aid of the software which takes care of clashes and restrictions, such as part time staff etc. I like the idea of the "what if" scenarios though, and have never really considered using timetabling software in that way before, so thanks for that - it may open up some interesting opportunities.