The French Ban SatNavs with Speed Camera Databases!

[m25man]

Researching the purchase of a new SatNav for my new Smart CDI (Yes I'm turning into a self righteous tree hugger), I stumbled across this Garmin | United Kingdom | In-car Extras - Speed & Safety Cameras

 

If your caught in France with a Camera enabled SatNav on holiday this year it could cost you a nice €1300 fine!

 

Cripes I thought, how many Brits are heading for a nasty tourist tax this year.

 

I wonder what the good old Pub Landlord Al Murray will make of that one!

[penfold_99]

Speed camera databases aren't really needed in France as they post a sign (not a fake one like in the uk) so there will be a camera and its not hidden, it will be on either side of the road.

[rich_tech]

its always been that way in France I believe, I remember reading a while back, if you were caught with a radar detector you would get fined heavy and police would make you destroy it

[laserblazer]

The satnav is built into our car!

[Jobos]

And it's not just France that has banned speed cameras as Switzerland and Liechtenstein have made them illegal too.

[sjatkn]

Thanks. I have just passed that on to a friend who is driving to France on Saturday.

[michael2k6]

I so read that first post as crepes not cripes. Imagine my disappointment.

My car has satnav in it, it's a navteq maps satnav, i think the head unit is a bosch, it's in an alfa. It cost £1200, and doesn't have 7 digit post codes in, just 5, and doesn't have the option of turning on speed cameras. It will tell me where car parks are though and sometimes if they're full, but can't take me to the post code of the place, or point out the speed camera on the way there (not that i'd be speaking, it's only got 235bhp - this car, if any, needs the ruddy speed camera jobby on the satnav!)

[ZeroHour]

Very useful to know! Will pass it on to a friend.

This explains why Nokia Drive doesn't have them in it.

Edited May 29, 2012 by ZeroHour

[Andrew_C]

If you try to update the maps on a Garmin, it will offer you a "delete French camera info" option. Of course, it isn't an "option" in the true sense of the word...

[laserblazer]

The AA site recommends contacting the car manufacturer for advice if you have a fitted satnav. I've sent Nissan an email, so it will be iteresting to see if I get a reply.

[elsiegee40]

This is Tom Tom's view of the situation: Is the TomTom Speed Camera service legal?

 

It has been illegal to be warned about the position of fixed speed cameras sinced January 3rd 2012.

 

Tom Tom updates removed French speed cameras then.

 

However

TomTom had a meeting with the Road Safety Ministry to clarify the situation regarding new and upcoming legislation. As a result, TomTom is introducing a 100% compliant Danger Zones service available in a free download for compatible products.

and you can now choose to download these 'danger zones' instead. (Scroll down the page on the above link for the official explanation)

 

I assume these happen to coincide with fixed speed camera areas. What the Gendarmerie on a bad day would make of "danger zones" is another matter!

 

The reporting of speed cameras in some other countries is illegal too, Switzerland for example.... We got flashed by a camera before we realised it wasn't working on our satnav!

[GrumbleDook]

Apparently there is a brilliant trick for beating speed cameras in every country.

 

First you look at the road signs which tell you the maximum speed you can travel at.

Next you look at the instrument panel to find the bit that tells you the speed you are traveling at.

Finally, you make sure you use the pedals that make cars go faster or slower in such a way that you don't go faster than the speed limit.

 

I know ... it is an amazing concept and I am so surprised that more isn't said about it instead of people talking about tools used to spot cameras so you don't get caught speeding.

 

Just saying!

[laserblazer]

I agree with you grumbledook but there are a lot of cases where drivers are tootling along concentrating on the road ahead and miss a speed limit. The warning is a reminder to them that they need to check their speed. The people that race up to the camera, break heavily and the accelerate away again are no-hopers!

[Danp]

I am sure this has been the case for a long time, I remember looking into it in Summer 05.

 

Don't forget other French (and other European rules) like hi vis jackets in the car (not boot), spare bulbs, breathalyser kits from July 1st etc etc

[sonofsanta]

I agree with you grumbledook but there are a lot of cases where drivers are tootling along concentrating on the road ahead and miss a speed limit. The warning is a reminder to them that they need to check their speed. The people that race up to the camera, break heavily and the accelerate away again are no-hopers!

 

I got my first speeding ticket a week after I passed my test, driving back from a hospital at around midnight I missed the 40 sign as it wasn't illuminated and I hadn't been driving long enough to be familiar with the road. Thought it was still a 60 and got caught doing 52

 

I would rather all speed cameras be removed and replaced with Tailgating Cameras instead, though.

[gshaw]

Apparently there is a brilliant trick for beating speed cameras in every country.

 

First you look at the road signs which tell you the maximum speed you can travel at.

Next you look at the instrument panel to find the bit that tells you the speed you are traveling at.

Finally, you make sure you use the pedals that make cars go faster or slower in such a way that you don't go faster than the speed limit.

 

I know ... it is an amazing concept and I am so surprised that more isn't said about it instead of people talking about tools used to spot cameras so you don't get caught speeding.

 

Just saying!

 

There's an amazing way to run someone over as well...

 

- check speed limit constantly for sneaky changes in limit, temporary roadworks etc

- stare constantly at speedometer to make sure you haven't gone 2mph over

- miss car \ child \ donkey walking out in front of you

- clear entrails from front grille, replace front bumper

 

I've always wondered why cars don't have an extra instrument in the dash that knows the limit of each road and changes your dials colour \ image on screen if you go over. Just seen one or two that have started doing it now, one for the inventions thread maybe

 

Then again as we all know, speed cameras are naff all to do with safety but just how much more £££ Governments can extract from motorists. Personally I prefer the Clarkson method of dealing with Gatsos... nothing a good blast with a rocket launcher can't fix

Edited May 29, 2012 by gshaw

[gtg93]

I was reading about this a few weeks ago - they've also introduced in the law that all vehicles must carry a breathaliser kit.

 

According to the AA, disabling the alerts on your SAT NAV is enough to comply with the new law. This is also the law in most

EU countries too now.

 

Speed camera databases aren't really needed in France as they post a sign (not a fake one like in the uk) so there will be a camera and its not hidden, it will be on either side of the road.

 

From what I read previously, they're also removing ALL speed camera warning signs.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

Link to the AA page I mentioned

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/radar-detectors-in-france.html

&

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/compulsory_equipment.html

Edited May 29, 2012 by gtg93

[gshaw]

I was reading about this a few weeks ago - they've also introduced in the law that all vehicles must carry a breathaliser kit.

According to the AA, disabling the alerts on your SAT NAV is enough to comply with the new law. This is also the law in most

 

Simple solution for IT geeks, change the bitmaps on your Tomtom etc to pictures of trees or something equally stealthy so anyone looking at it won't know the alerts are still on

[sted]

There's an amazing way to run someone over as well...

 

- check speed limit constantly for sneaky changes in limit, temporary roadworks etc

- stare constantly at speedometer to make sure you haven't gone 2mph over

- miss car \ child \ donkey walking out in front of you

- clear entrails from front grille, replace front bumper

 

I've always wondered why cars don't have an extra instrument in the dash that knows the limit of each road and changes your dials colour \ image on screen if you go over. Just seen one or two that have started doing it now, one for the inventions thread maybe

 

Then again as we all know, speed cameras are naff all to do with safety but just how much more £££ Governments can extract from motorists. Personally I prefer the Clarkson method of dealing with Gatsos... nothing a good blast with a rocket launcher can't fix

 

there are also odd cars around that have the speed on a hud in the windscreen that is in theory a good idea (and the focus at least top models) "reads speed signs" and warns you

[GrumbleDook]

I got my first speeding ticket a week after I passed my test, driving back from a hospital at around midnight I missed the 40 sign as it wasn't illuminated and I hadn't been driving long enough to be familiar with the road. Thought it was still a 60 and got caught doing 52

 

I would rather all speed cameras be removed and replaced with Tailgating Cameras instead, though.

 

If the sign was not properly placed or properly illuminated then contest it.

 

It is catch 22. If we trusted people to stay in the limit then the money spent on cameras, hospitals dealing with injuries which are worse, etc could be spent on better lighting and signage.

[PICNIC]

From what I read previously, they're also removing ALL speed camera warning signs.

 

Surely a speed limit sign is enough?

[GrumbleDook]

There's an amazing way to run someone over as well...

 

- check speed limit constantly for sneaky changes in limit, temporary roadworks etc

- stare constantly at speedometer to make sure you haven't gone 2mph over

- miss car \ child \ donkey walking out in front of you

- clear entrails from front grille, replace front bumper

 

I've always wondered why cars don't have an extra instrument in the dash that knows the limit of each road and changes your dials colour \ image on screen if you go over. Just seen one or two that have started doing it now, one for the inventions thread maybe

 

Then again as we all know, speed cameras are naff all to do with safety but just how much more £££ Governments can extract from motorists. Personally I prefer the Clarkson method of dealing with Gatsos... nothing a good blast with a rocket launcher can't fix

 

And that is the wonderful thing about the next part of the plan ... not only do you not speed but by driving *below* the speed limit (by 2-3 mph is a good idea) then you can use experience and judgement, combined with the occasional glimpse at the speedo, to decide if you are going that bit too fast.

 

I do agree that constantly looking at something other than the road something that needs to be avoided (anyone would think this is an area that could be covered with lessons or a test or something) ... and one of the useful things about satnavs is that the can often be set with speed warning alarms. from what I have seen most people tend to set them (if they do set them) will have it want them if going several mph over the limit ... why not do it for if you are 1 mph below the limit? That way you don't go over.

 

Drive to a few mph below the limit ... not to the limit.

 

Just saying.

[sonofsanta]

If the sign was not properly placed or properly illuminated then contest it.

 

This was about a decade ago now so probably not worth it now tbh (although I could still do with the £60 back)

 

I'm still of the opinion that speed is never a factor, simply the misapplication of speed and poor driving. Speed is sometimes an indicator of poor/aggressive driving, but it is an effect, not necessarily a cause. Once upon a time speed limits were set based on the 85th percentile - that is, the limit was what 85% of people drove at or under when left to their own devices, as that was what the road allowed. Sadly that has been discarded recently for whatever reason; conspiratorially, in order to give an appearance of "doing something" and improve the profitability of speed cameras, but I couldn't say. As a result there's now entire journeys where the speed limits are unnecessarily restricting - Skegness to Boston, for example, has no destricted zones anymore, in a 23 mile journey. Ten years ago it had a number of 40s going through villages and the rest was at the national speed limit, with the journey taking maybe 40 minutes. Now it's over an hour because of an artificial limit. As far as I'm aware, it's not made much difference either - the problem is a poor quality road and bad driver judgement wrt blind corners (somewhat of a Lincolnshire affliction, I fear).

 

Driver education is the only way to properly lower the risks on the roads. Deterrents clearly don't work - how many people do you see talking on mobiles still? - and technical solutions can never properly mitigate human stupidity. A proper driving test, though, that taught driving skills not test-passing skills, followed up with an advanced course and regular re-testing, would do much more than speed cameras ever have.

 

The government'd even be making money out of it still, and providing employment with the required expansion at test centres. It'd cause too much uproar though. Much easier to sticky plaster the problem with big yellow boxes.

[SimpleSi]

@GD

I thought about adding fixed cams to my speedsign database but then realised it was redundant - if I'm speeding and ignoring my flashing red light and beeping noise, I'm probably not going to notice any other warnings either

 

As you say, removal of right foot from the pedal is the way forward - I wonder if you could get it trending on twitter

 

Si

[SimpleSi]

've always wondered why cars don't have an extra instrument in the dash that knows the limit of each road and changes your dials colour \ image on screen if you go over

I've written an android app that does this.

Problems is I don't know of any public databases that have this information in them.

 

I'm currently using a combination of recording speedsigns when I'm a passenger and feeding info into OpenStreetmap and then parsing the data to produce .kml files which my app reads.

 

Of course, when the highways dept go on a Jihad, like they've done for the past month, and blanket pepper 20MPH all over Souths Lancs (and throw a few National Speed Limit to 40MPH changes as well) then its a full time job keeping up withthe database changes!

 

Si

But if anyone fancies a change in hobby from trainspotting , please send me your kml files and I'll add them in (or if your REAL geeky) try getting to grips with JOSM and put them in directly yourself

 

Si