RM CC4 + Laptops on Wifi

[nickbro]

If your on CC4, how are you using Laptops with CC4.

 

I only ask because we can't use laptops on trolleys any more due to the 15-20 minutes it takes for the laptops to get to the logon screen and actually be usable. They are NEW Core i3 Laptops brought from RM, connected to a managed HP Procurve 802.11a/b/g/n wifi APs (usually connecting at 130mbps but sometimes higher)

 

Takes them about 5/10 minutes to Apply Computer Settings...

 

1/2 of the laptops aren't new but stuff have a 802.11n card in, but only a dual core pentium D.

 

Have tried both Windows 7 and Windows XP (with the former booting quicker, but giving the error of no logon servers available, the latter taking the 5/10 minutes to Apply computer settings)

 

When the older laptops were on CC3 they booted in 5 minutes or less, so I know it has to be CC4 related, since the other software is still the same (HAP+ Logon Tracker, Sophos Antivirus, etc...)

 

My current thinking is to stick a switch in the laptop trolley, connect the laptops to that, and that to the network. and use WoL to boot the laptops 10/15 minutes before the lesson they are needed in.

 

 

 

I need some HELP on this one please

[synaesthesia]

Not a problem I've seen - this normally just works. Have you asked RM about it at all?

[nickbro]

Got a support call open for it at the moment, but they don't seem to be getting anywere, seem to thing it's a WIFI problem, which I know it isn't because the WIFI hasn't changed between the CC3->CC4 upgrade

 

I used to just bring the trolleys to the class room (2 trolleys with 15 laptops in each, totalling 30)

[synaesthesia]

One of the things that was changed from CC3 to 4 (and still needs changing for CC3 users) is DHCP lease time - it'll be worth checking that it's still not set to the 60 odd days by default. That could cause all sorts of issues

[nickbro]

It's set to 5 days

[nickbro]

Gonna give this a go tomorrow, try and find out what's making it hang on applying computer settings

 

How to enable user environment debug logging in retail builds of Windows

[nickbro]

Ok that didn't show anything out of the ordinary, going to try disabling all but the Microsoft Services using msconfig and slowly add services back

[Jamo]

Enable the verbose startup messages

 

Computer Configuration\Policies\Administrative Template\System-Verbose vs normal status messages - Set to Enabled

 

You should then be able to see what section it gets stuck on

 

You can also do this with MSConfig I think?

[nickbro]

Enabled that, it's still showing it's hanging on applying computer settings

[Jamo]

Hmm, network contention? Does the same happen for one laptop?

[nickbro]

It's all of them, just seems to be very slow. It's a 802.11N network, the laptops are saying they're connecting at anything above 150mbps upto 300mbps. Just seems something on the RM network is causing a lot of network traffic when the laptops start up

[Jamo]

So if you were to start up just one laptop, the problem goes away? (well not the problem as such....)

 

RM put a lot of bit and pieces into their machines scripts, I know the problem you talk of, I used to maintain a bunch of ancient laptops at an old school, was looking at a 35 min logon sometimes and that was with CC3!!!!

[Jamo]

How many laptops per AP? Is it a managed wireless or one of the D-Link things that RM sell?

[nickbro]

Depends how the laptops choose to connect, it's a managed HP Procurve system, it can either be 30 or 15 per AP depending on how close the other AP is and what the laptops decide to do

[Edu-IT]

We've got some older laptops here which don't even take that long!

[Jamo]

Quite honestly 30 seems like quite a lot to get onto one AP, especially during startup, if you are getting huge contention then more APs or staggering the logons is the best bet especially if the AP isn't managed.

[nickbro]

The AP is managed though, it was never a problem for the same laptops on the same point back on CC3

[Jamo]

Contention just means that there are a lot of wireless backoffs and timeouts caused by excessive collisions. If you are using an RM standard logon process and nothing else has changed it suggests that the wireless connection could be the bottleneck?

 

Do you have any benchmarks with 1 laptop, 2 laptops etc and seeing where the slowdown begins?

[nickbro]

The change is from CC3 to CC4, nothing else has changed, I think we'll have to look at getting the next version up on the APs.

 

HP MSM Controller Series - HP Networking, HP MSM720 Premium Mobility Controller (WW), J9694A, HP MSM760 Mobility Controller, J9420A, HP MSM765 zl Mobility Controller, J9370A, HP MSM720 Access Controller (WW), J9693A, HP MSM760 Access Controller, J942 (We have the MSM 760 Access Controller) coupled with HP MSM-802.11n Access Point Series - HP Networking, HP MSM410 Access Point (US), J9426B, HP MSM410 Access Point (WW), J9427B, HP MSM410 Access Point (JP), J9529B, HP MSM410 Single Radio 802.11n AP (IL), J9616A, HP MSM422 Access Point (US), J9358B, HP (MSN 410)

[Jamo]

Its not just the name, CC3 to CC4, that will have changed though, there could be huge underlying network throughput differences and totally different methods of achieving what to the user seems the same result. The only way of doing this would be to perform some benchmarking.

 

Is one laptop quick? Are 10 laptops the same? Is there a limit to how many you can get onto one AP? etc etc, its a pita but there really isn't another way to see what it is that is the bottleneck

[nickbro]

will have to do some more testing, it's a PITA, just sucks that it's happening, we're not the biggest site, so putting more access points in wont really help things, I think the upgrade to the dual band version of the APs would probably solve 1/2 the problems

[Jamo]

You could also try running Procmon in startup logging mode and check out hte process tree, it should show any processes which have taken ages to start up.

[rad]

Well if its any consilation, I have bought back a trolley of 26 laptops from [Department] all housed in a lovely Lapsafe trolley, all just 3 years old running 4Gb of RAM that have killed their batteries and they too take an ege to log onto the CC4 network. The department dont want them so they will be distributed as standalone Laptops to staff.

 

CC4 + wireless logon = mess

[simpsonj]

Something I'm looking at here (though login times aren't that slow) is to put laptops and desktops into sleep Mon-Thursday, and only setting a full shutdown Friday evening. Haven't tested it, but should certainly make your boot times quicker...

[nickbro]

Thanks, will look into it, I really don't think it's a wifi issue, getting reports from staff of Windows XP desktop pcs also taking there time to run through the applying computer settings stage, will have to get RM to investigate this further as something isn't quite right