Dos_Box Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 According to an article in El Reg it is pegged for a Q4 release in 2013 and looks to be a monster: PlayStation 4 'Orbis' pegged for 2013 release ? reghardware However it may also come with a few killjoy features: The sources also said there will be no backwards compatibility for PS3 games and that the brawny console will come with measures to prevent secondhand games being played without the prior purchase of an unlock code. Titles, expected on to ship on Blu-ray Discs and as downloads, may require online connectivity for authentication too. Although it will give console crackers something to be getting on with for a bit I reckon!
synaesthesia Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I suspect it will fail as much as 3 did and continues to do (compared to how Sony and frankly most of the console world thought it would do). Sort of a shame on one hand but on the other, I suspect the growth gaming area will continue to be casual and mobile. Although Sony can't even get that side of it right, their Vista thing is still a bit faily. It'll still have a huge fanbase of course, I just wonder how long it is before the "big merge" of home entertainment happens.
CAM Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I wonder what is cheaper, these big technical solutions to stop the second hand market or making first hand titles a more affordable price? I was wondering what this pass thing was meant to be on the Vita, now I know.
SYNACK Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Although it will give console crackers something to be getting on with for a bit I reckon! Unless Sony gets their way and is allowed to publicly execute anyone attempting to use their gear in a way not outlined in the manual.
Theblacksheep Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I suspect it will fail as much as 3 did and continues to do (compared to how Sony and frankly most of the console world thought it would do). Sort of a shame on one hand but on the other, I suspect the growth gaming area will continue to be casual and mobile. Although Sony can't even get that side of it right, their Vista thing is still a bit faily. It'll still have a huge fanbase of course, I just wonder how long it is before the "big merge" of home entertainment happens. I love the way PS3 is counted by some as a "Failure" even after selling 65m units. Quite laughable. Also interesting how much Sony gets bashed for implementing the things the PC market and some of the big developers (EA) has had for years. How do you buy second hand on steam? Still, its cool to bash Sony. Edited March 30, 2012 by Theblacksheep
SYNACK Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I love the way PS3 is counted by some as a "Failure" even after selling 65m units. Quite laughable. Also interesting how much Sony gets bashed for implementing the things the PC market has had for years. How do you buy second hand on steam? Like revoking hardware features, killing backward compatability and storing then loosing hundreds of thousands of bits of user sensitive info all in one go thanks to shocking security on their compulseraly collected data store? TVs with less and less format support, blueray extentins breaking most players other than the PS3, rootkitted CDs etc. etc... They do 'a lot' to be bashed for. Edited March 30, 2012 by SYNACK 1
korifugi Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) To be honest, they've ALL got something to be bashed for... Sony - Implementing (great idea!), then removing backwards compatability, 'losing' user data. Microsoft - RROD anyone? Having a two-tier online system that can give in game bonuses to the higher tier (only on a few games though)? Nintendo - Where the is my Star-Wars Lightsabre type game that your smegging controller is perfect for? Lets not turn this into a ps3/xbox/wii/pc/etchasketch war though, they all have things they do better than the others Edited March 30, 2012 by korifugi
synaesthesia Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 I love the way PS3 is counted by some as a "Failure" even after selling 65m units. Quite laughable. Still, its cool to bash Sony. Please re-read my post - I said it failed heavily in their own eyes. "Cool" to bash someone? Not really. It's fair to point out shortcomings and reasons why it was never as successful as it should/could have been.
Arthur Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Despite the PS4 having an AMD CPU and GPU, it sounds like PC gamers will still have to suffer with rubbish console ports when the next gen consoles are released. The x86 PlayStation 4 could signal a sea-change in the console industry « Ars Technica Console gamers of all kinds may also be disappointed the new machines won't be as tremendous a leap over current systems as past systems have been. Consoles have already been eclipsed by PCs—with a result that games like Battlefield 3 offer PC players larger maps with more players than the consoles can cope with—and it looks like that will still be the case come the eighth generation. If current rumors are to be believed, the next generation of Sony and Microsoft consoles will gain performance parity with PCs, but not much more. Consoles will still have their advantages—the range of peripherals, the plug-and-play simplicity, the reduced maintenance, the low up-front cost—but they won't be able to offer best-in-class gaming, even at their debut. For that, only a PC will do.
synaesthesia Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Despite the PS4 having an AMD CPU and GPU, it sounds like PC gamers will still have to suffer with rubbish console ports when the next gen consoles are released. Rather like they are now, then! Plenty of crap ports from Xbox are defacto standard on PC. It's nice to get one or two titles released a time after though where they've obviously worked on making the most from gaming PCs like Alan Wake.
CAM Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Agreed, and some titles still have their home on a PC. I can't believe that console makers still haven't cottoned on to mouse and keyboard though as that is the big barrier to cross-platform gaming for publishers.
SYNACK Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Rather like they are now, then! Plenty of crap ports from Xbox are defacto standard on PC. It's nice to get one or two titles released a time after though where they've obviously worked on making the most from gaming PCs like Alan Wake. On a side note Alan Wake was a great game, its ashame it was not more of a sales sucess.
sonofsanta Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Despite the PS4 having an AMD CPU and GPU, it sounds like PC gamers will still have to suffer with rubbish console ports when the next gen consoles are released. The x86 PlayStation 4 could signal a sea-change in the console industry « Ars Technica A PS4 with a quad-core chip and Southern Islands (7750?) GPU would outperform a similarly specced PC though, certainly after developers have got to grips with it, because developers can code on bare-metal for consoles where everything is identical. The abstraction layers of DirectX etc. limit how much utilisation you can get out of PC hardware. Bit more here: AMD: DirectX Holding Back Game Performance Ultimately, though, we are just at a point of diminishing returns wrt photorealism. Each order of magnitude higher in polygon count has a commensurately smaller impact from now on. I'd rather them just give the next-gen a chunk more video RAM than the pathetic amounts we have now to allow much better textures, and everyone just aim for 1080p60 with interesting art direction instead.
SYNACK Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 A PS4 with a quad-core chip and Southern Islands (7750?) GPU would outperform a similarly specced PC though, certainly after developers have got to grips with it, because developers can code on bare-metal for consoles where everything is identical. The abstraction layers of DirectX etc. limit how much utilisation you can get out of PC hardware. Bit more here: AMD: DirectX Holding Back Game Performance Ultimately, though, we are just at a point of diminishing returns wrt photorealism. Each order of magnitude higher in polygon count has a commensurately smaller impact from now on. I'd rather them just give the next-gen a chunk more video RAM than the pathetic amounts we have now to allow much better textures, and everyone just aim for 1080p60 with interesting art direction instead. You do get the 'java' argument though where the claim is that for the majority of developers a smart compiler/interpreter made by smart people will optimise better than all but the best of programers. This is the justification that some of the science places use, I don't think I agree in either scenario though, native is almost always better, despite the lazy science javatards views.
aerospacemango Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 The sources also said there will be no backwards compatibility for PS3 games and that the brawny console will come with measures to prevent secondhand games being played without the prior purchase of an unlock code. Titles, expected on to ship on Blu-ray Discs and as downloads, may require online connectivity for authentication too. Surely this cannot be realistic? Are they looking for the quickest, easiest, way out of the console market? Why would you take backwards compatibility out? It's hard to believe that the top people at Sony would allow this?
Arthur Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Surely this cannot be realistic? Are they looking for the quickest, easiest, way out of the console market? If Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all agree behind closed doors to prevent secondhand games being played on their respective consoles, gamers will not be able to switch to a competitors console. Why would you take backwards compatibility out? It increases costs. A PS4 with a quad-core chip and Southern Islands (7750?) GPU would outperform a similarly specced PC though, certainly after developers have got to grips with it, because developers can code on bare-metal for consoles where everything is identical. Even if the PS4 has a 7970-class GPU, it will be old news compared to the hardware that PC gamers will have access to when the console is released in two years time (late 2013 or thereabouts). If it supports the 4k2k HDTVs being released next year (the 79xx GPUs already do), game developers will primarily design their games for 1080p displays since that is what almost everyone has today. Ultimately, though, we are just at a point of diminishing returns wrt photorealism. There's still a way to go before we reach the point of diminishing returns... How close are we to truly photorealistic, real-time games? « Ars Technica The necessary bounds for true photorealism are set by the physical limits of the human eye, Sweeney explained, which can only process the equivalent of a 30 megapixel image at about 70 frames per second. Given current trends, monitor display technology should be able to handle that level of detail for a small area in just a few more generations. Projecting that level of detail across a larger, 90 degree field of vision would take an 8000x6000 pixel display, which is still quite far off but "within sight," Sweeney said. This level of detail sets an upper limit on the amount of memory and raw processing power we'd need to depict a "good enough" photorealistic scene, Sweeney says. That limit is about 50 times greater than the polygon-processing capabilities of today's top-end hardware, meaning it's at least two generations away. While Epic's Unreal Engine 3 demo is impressive, you can still tell it's a game. Edited April 2, 2012 by Arthur
Theblacksheep Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Like revoking hardware features, killing backward compatability and storing then loosing hundreds of thousands of bits of user sensitive info all in one go thanks to shocking security on their compulseraly collected data store? Backwards compatibility never worked properly, even with hardware. In software lots of titles failed to work it also wasnt a great loss. Not everything on the 360 is BC and the wii has removed from modern hardware. Revoking hardware features? 2 extra USB ports and a card reader? Not enough to write home about. The Slim is a better console for it. My orig 20gb (500gb) PS3 still has linux and still works well, except for the badly implemented BC and linux. Outside of the PS2, where else could you use linux on a recent mainstream console? Are they looking for the quickest, easiest, way out of the console market? Why would you take backwards compatibility out? Why would you implement it in a new console when you're current consoles don't support it and nor will other vendors? Try trading FM2012 on PC. I couldnt even play FM2012 until Steam said so, despite having the media 2 days before release. Many PC games cannot be traded secondhand now. Many console game require an additional online activation (and fee) now. This is just one extra step that will be in the new MS and Sony consoles. Edited April 2, 2012 by Theblacksheep
sonofsanta Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 If Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all agree behind closed doors to prevent secondhand games being played on their respective consoles, gamers will not be able to switch to a competitors console. Related Ars article: Op-ed: Blocking used games unlikely to kill the console game market There's still a way to go before we reach the point of diminishing returns... How close are we to truly photorealistic, real-time games? « Ars Technica While Epic's Unreal Engine 3 demo is impressive, you can still tell it's a game. Bad choice of phrase by me, perhaps... what I meant by "diminishing returns" was really that the effort required on the part of the developers and artists does not see a proportionally improved image now. Looking at the Unreal demo, it's nothing like as impressive a jump as we had from PS1 > PS2 > PS3, but more like a half-jump that comes from tightening up what we have - better particles, better textures, post-processing and good anti-aliasing. We have the pieces in place already, we just need a bit more grunt to get it to work smoothly. Undoubtedly there will still be a big push towards photorealism, but it will take so much intensive art work, and require a generation of setting up camp inside the uncanny valley, that I think greater reward will be had from good art direction on a smooth engine. Even if the PS4 has a 7970-class GPU, it will be old news compared to the hardware that PC gamers will have access to when the console is released in two years time (late 2013 or thereabouts). You don't need to convince me that PCs are best for gaming, anyone with half a brain knows that
Arthur Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 New rumour today about the next-gen Xbox... www.vg247.com/2012/04/02/xbox-720-detailed-blu-ray-inside-always-on-netcon-required/ VG247 has learned that Microsoft has now detailed Xbox 720 to certain partners and has internally confirmed the machine for a Christmas 2013 release. The next generation Xbox will have a Blu-ray drive, contrary to a recent report. Multiple sources have confirmed this morning that the machine will have two GPUs. One said: “It’s like two PCs taped together". There will be “four or six” cores to the Xbox 720 CPU, one of which will be reserved for Kinect and one for the OS. Xbox 720 will require an always-on internet connection as an anti-piracy measure. We’ve also been told that the next generation of Kinect will be built into the device as standard. The details have emerged in the wake of a hastily removed tweet from Sean Tracy, a technical designer for Crytek, that said he was attending the “Durango summit” in London at the end of February. Durango is though to be the codename for the console. Is piracy that bad on the Xbox 360 that Microsoft feel the need to implement Ubisoft-style DRM?
featured_spectre Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 It was announced at E3 that 2nd hand games will be a thing of the past, purely from the standpoint made by developers of the games. Take skyrim or Call of Duty for example, brand new - £40, 2nd hand - £20...both usable in the same way. EA cottoned on after Fifa 08 and started doing activation codes that were either free with a new game, or cost £10 with a 2nd hand game, which goes straight to EA. In theory the 2nd hand games will still work, it will just mean you buy activations for the games to play them, so unless the game is either years old, or ridiculously cheap, it would make sense to buy a new game rather than 2nd hand.
Guest Guest Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I love the way PS3 is counted by some as a "Failure" even after selling 65m units. Quite laughable. But for the first few years they made a lose on every console. It would be interesting to know what the actual profits after the games "tax" is between the manufacturers. It is my experience that there are a hell of a lot of people who bought a PS3, but out of those people 9 out of 10 don't actually play on them, infact I don't know anyone who still does, and considering the 360 is older you would expect it would be the PS which people still play. Obviously wikipedia isn't always the best source of facts but never the less looking at the following article shows that xbox 360 far outsold PS3 on cross platform games. List of best-selling video games - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia If MS and Nintendo were smart they would allow 2nd hand games on their new consoles, kill Sony off, and then change their mind with the next incarnation of their respective consoles... Do you reckon they might update their archaic pad this time? I make no apologies for not liking Sony. They are Apple but minus the innovation, since the PS1 at least. Edited April 2, 2012 by Guest
gpe5732 Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Every console maker sells consoles at a loss for the first few years. The only exception MAY have been the Wii, I don't recall.
sonofsanta Posted April 3, 2012 Posted April 3, 2012 Every console maker sells consoles at a loss for the first few years. The only exception MAY have been the Wii, I don't recall. Indeed, the Wii was profitable straight out of the gate, and was (iirc) pretty much the first console to ever do so - at least for a long time, anyway. Just one more reason why Nintendo are rolling in it right now. Wii profitable from day one News • News • Eurogamer.net
Pete10141748 Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 If there is going to be an "always-on" anti-piracy thing and activation codes required just to play a game, I'd love to know how companies who rent out games like LoveFilm will work with it. Backwards compatability, I could care less about. I own a PS3 (never game on it though, only use it as a bluray player), but I still have my PS2 if I want to play PS2 games, and if I get a PS4 (meh) that doesn't mean I'll chuck my PS3 the same day. Play a game on the hardware it was designed for, or don't play it. And I wouldn't be suprised if they tried to eliminate the second-hand market now the tech is around to do so. Reselling games makes the developers of the games no more money, the profit all goes to whoever sold the title 2nd hand, so of course they would rather everyone bought new copies of the game.
LosOjos Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 One thing nobody has mentioned here yet: what the hell happens if my internet connection goes down? In addition to no web I won't be able to play a game either (or watch a film potentially, assuming the "always on" connection means for any use!)?! Do we trust the ISPs in this country to keep our connections constant?
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