Primary School Requirements

[mbudzi]

Hi, not sure if this is the right website or forum to get information ... but here I am. I am not technical and will ask stupid questions!

 

I am working on a local team to get a community broadband solution into a rural area. We had been looking at using EMBC as a potential supplier of a bearer for a wireless provider by using 80% of a primary school with a 100meg bearer. the costs EMBC have provided are ridiculous.

 

However, in looking at this solution I am scandalised at the prices the primaries are going to have to pay for their broadband (about 50% of a teacher's salary) and I don't want the schools in the area making the choice to have less teachers. Consequently our wireless provider has had a look and said they could provide the schools the service for a lot less.

 

My problem is that I don't understand what services schools require in order that I can make an initial judgement before talking to school heads. Does anyone have a link to some guidance, or a short summary of what schools MUST have in place and what they might also want in place?

 

any guidance appreciated ... I don't want the schools being lead on a dance here, but any alternative MUST be secure and watertight.

 

Cheers.

[Steve21]

any guidance appreciated ... I don't want the schools being lead on a dance here, but any alternative MUST be secure and watertight.

 

Cheers.

 

The problem you'll find is as with anything, the cost isn't "just" broadband. It's firewalls, logging, security, filtering, support etc etc.

 

The list goes on, Just giving a school a broadband connection, they could sign that themselves.

 

From my point of view, it's the "additional" services that make the cost what it is.

 

Steve

[X-13]

Hi, not sure if this is the right website or forum to get information ... but here I am. I am not technical and will ask stupid questions!

 

I AM technical and ask stupid questions.

 

 

 

But, yeah... This is LGfL 2.0.

 

It's not your region, but it should give you some sort of idea of what to look for.

 

 

And this is their guide. [PDF]

 

Which should give you some sort of idea about what pricing to expect.

[mbudzi]

Thanks Steve. Its that list of additions that I am after - not being in education I have no feel for it at all. What is currently provided to you?

[X-13]

Its that list of additions that I am after - not being in education I have no feel for it at all. What is currently provided to you?

 

Who, me?

 

We're LGfL [1.0 or whatever it actually is] at the moment, but everything is up in the air... We're not 100% on what's going on.

[mbudzi]

Thanks X-13, this gives me a great starting point ... understand will come with time ... lets hope!

[synaesthesia]

We're certainly happy to help here!

 

I look after a few primary schools and am involved with a fair few more regarding broadband provision, making sure they need what they get, get what they need etc. For someone outside of education (and unfortunately a few inside!) it will look outrageous, but as has already been said, this is for good reason. That reason can be marked under the umbrella term "E-Safety" very easily. Making sure email, websites and what not is all properly filtered to a high standard is not a cheap process. Plus of course, broadband provision itself which doesn't include the esafety side of things isn't cheap because for schools it needs to be what's called uncontended - this means they don't have to share it with everyone else in their local area. A home user will normally share their broadband (the hardware at the local telephony exchange) with 50 other users, so at peak times it will be slower. Schools rely so much on the Internet that this isn't plausable. Also it does add a little more security as well.

 

Pricing will also vary depending on what technology is available; for instance connecting some rural areas can be hugely expensive *and* slow if the local exchange doesn't have technology like "Fibre to the Cabinet" which just means the general community has better, faster access. These prices vary from area to area massively.

 

The sharing of broadband for small rural communities has come up a few times for some of the schools I helped out with in the past, and due to the slow speed the school could get on their normal connection it wouldn't have been feasible to share that, at least during the day. To get speeds that would at least be usable (for instance 10Mbit) they would have had to pay to have special lines laid; something BT couldn't afford/wouldn't do.

 

Do you know what sort of speed EMBC where offering? Bear in mind they won't exist, so to speak, as from the end of October this year. However this may help you; basically, their owners Capita are splitting the services, so Capita do the filtering (which would be needed for the school) and a company called Kingston Communications deal with the actual broadband provision. It could be worth speaking to Kcom to ask if they can help with this too.

[Pete10141748]

As others have said, the reason for the expense is all the security, not just having the line itself.

Here we have E2BN provide our Internet. They use Protex filtering so that the children cannot access inappropriate things, and allow several different settings for filtering based on the age of the children - there is a separate one for staff which is less filtered, but still mostly safe if used sensibly.

 

This webpage has two documents you might be interested in, written for the "non technical" audience The Way your School Uses Broadband is different - E2BN

 

A quick bit about their web filtering Web Filtering and Caching - Protex - E2BN

 

And some more genera info on them Network and Services - E2BN

 

Some info on the "Law of ICT Negligence"

The key bits are at the bottom, where it points out that the parent of a child who access inappropriate material online at school due to no filtering being in place can sue the class teacher AND the school itself for not having such security in place.

ICT Negligence in Education - an introduction (UK Law)

[GrumbleDook]

A quick note ... Embc *will* exist after October ... emPSN might be the new label but the branding is still there for schools. It is just how schools interact with it will be different. I'll try to put up a longer post tomorrow to explain about managed networks a bit more.

 

The management is also a key aspect here linked in with the resilient structure of the network.

 

If you let me know which region you are in I can point you to the relevant people as there are differences between the LAs/areas in the East Midlands.

[synaesthesia]

Sorry my apologies on that (EMBC) - I tend to get words mixed up when trying to keep things simple

[SimpleSi]

OT

 

it points out that the parent of a child who access inappropriate material online at school due to no filtering being in place can sue the class teacher AND the school itself for not having such security in place.

 

Anyone can sue anyone over anything nowasdays but it doesn't make it right

 

That article you've linked to is possibly the worst piece of scaremongering I've seen in a long long time and I'm very suprised that its been published

 

Si

[dwhyte85]

Even with filtering... teachers and IT staff need to be vigilent - it doesn't matter who provides the filtering, they will never be fully accountable if some kids find a way around something.

 

You could get EFM very cheaply these days, get quad bonded and you will be hitting some fairly good speeds both ways. Firewall, filtering and logging... well, all firewalls log... and i can't imagine many filtering appliances not logging.

 

Forgot to add support... any VAR will have some support, let alone most products coming with technical support anyway. Perhaps not going through a solutions provider gives a little more slack too...

 

I'm not stating anyone product/solution is better than any but certainly many ways to skin this cat... in the current situation with funding you should all be looking around, not jumping onto the first, easiest product you see!

Edited March 30, 2012 by dwhyte85

[GrumbleDook]

OT

 

 

 

Anyone can sue anyone over anything nowasdays but it doesn't make it right

 

That article you've linked to is possibly the worst piece of scaremongering I've seen in a long long time and I'm very suprised that its been published

 

Si

 

It isn't scaremongering, it is the professional dissection by an experienced and qualified legal expert who is trying to advise schools of their obligations and how to deal with risk. Say what you want about the law ... if it is there and has to be followed then you either work to change it (if it isn't suitable) or you get on with it!

 

I find it disappointing that anyone would fail to see that.

 

If people can't see the possible harm that can come to children, in particular vulnerable children, due to problems with filtering and inappropriate security then those articles are the perfect thing for you to read through and look at.

[SimpleSi]

As usual - we disagree

 

 

It is scaremongering and using a very large sledgehammer (e.g threat of being sued ) if you don't use every and any available device to "protect" children.

 

I have children - I don't use every and any device to protect them from physical and online threats and I don't expect society to go to extreme lengths either.

 

For evil (replace with cotton-wool kiddy culture) to suceed all it takes is for good people to say nothing!

 

This article was written by a commercial supplier who is in the internet filtering business nuff said!

 

Si

[GrumbleDook]

I truly think you have missed the point with this ... the whole thing about the chance of being sued is not the point .. the risk of harm to children is! The fact that it is coming from a commercial supplier is neither here nor there ... having heard the same things coming from the mouths of police, child protection officers, folk involved in serious case reviews ... so the fact that it is also coming from a supplier who have asked a legal expert to check over who they work and you are questioning that expert?

 

What you do for your own children is up to you I suppose ... the risks you take and how you manage them being online ... what a school has to do to deal with the requirement for all the children in their care is another matter. If you don't understand that the reason the laws are put in place is for protection *and* frequently because things have gone wrong previously ... then fine. Stick your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalalala!" and let the rest of us deal with the real world.

[elsiegee40]

Ahem! @GrumbleDook and @SimpleSi you need to take your discussion elsewhere. This thread is on the subject of Broadband provision for a Primary School and what else needs to be included.

[elsiegee40]

Now it's quietened down, I'll put my two penn'orth in.

 

@mbudzi , as others have said when you are paying for broadband for the school you are paying for than just the leased line.

 

That line speed has to be capable of supporting many machines connecting at a time. It is not helpful to be working with a class of 30 and have the internet on go slow.

 

All schools have legal safeguarding liabilities meaning that

- security (how likely is it that the network could be hacked),

- filtering (controlling the websites that pupils can access),

- logging (which websites did they access? who sent what to whom)

must all be considered as part of the Broadband package.

 

EMBC will give you a bundle that means that all the legal areas covered. They are not the only supplier of these bundles: RM for example provide a leased line and filtering product as do exa

 

You can pay for 'separates' to make up the bundles, but speaking as a Primary School technician, there is a huge amount of work involved in this and your technician is likely to be part time and working on his/her own without the time to look after it all. A bundled package is often the cheapest option at Primary level.

 

I do suggest that you talk to @GrumbleDook as he works for Northants CC and has contacts within EMBC that may be able to help you. He is also a knowledgable concerning the legal hoops that schools must jump through... and I trust him not to tell you to go with EMBC if it's not likely to be the right Internet provider for you.

[SimpleSi]

Sorry for the hijack

 

Si

[portseven]

So a thread I have an interest in, am a Governor of a small primary school in Glossop, Derbyshire. I am yet to see articulated a set of requirements for Primary School broadband provision

 

Does it need to meet a minimum SLA?

Does it need to have filtering (is this a legal requirement)

Does it need to have a minimum bandwidth level

Does it need to provide web hosting

Does it need to have links to Janet?

 

I think once we have set of clear functional and non-functional requirements, the selection is the easy bit....

[Steve21]

So a thread I have an interest in, am a Governor of a small primary school in Glossop, Derbyshire. I am yet to see articulated a set of requirements for Primary School broadband provision

 

Does it need to meet a minimum SLA?

Does it need to have filtering (is this a legal requirement)

Does it need to have a minimum bandwidth level

Does it need to provide web hosting

Does it need to have links to Janet?

 

I think once we have set of clear functional and non-functional requirements, the selection is the easy bit....

 

Well unless there's something hidden away I've never actually seen anything that says a school "must" have the internet at all. It's assumed, and a bit of common sense in the world we live in, but I'm sure you'll find many schools on smaller islands etc that don't have internet still.

 

In terms of "recommendations" there are lots, but again not really "rules". e.g. http://www.nen.gov.uk/files/SchoolsBBRequirements-18Sept10.pdf

 

Only my two cents, may be completely wrong about the rules part

 

Steve

[portseven]

Cheers for that Steve

 

Would be interested to find out what are really 'legal' requirements and what are just reccomended. Looking at teth NEN documents, it's more like a set of reccomended specs. I guess functional requirements vary depending on the school,

[synaesthesia]

You can easily distinguish what is needed with a bit of thought - i.e. of course you can get connections without any filtering but when someone accesses something they shouldn't be seeing, someone at the school is getting into *big* trouble. Therefore you can chalk filtering up as a requirement, whether it's legal or not. Most, if not all of the recommendations that have been drawn up by several groups including NEN above and BECTA will have been done so in the school's best interests and not the contents of the ISP's wallets, so it serves schools well to use them as a minimum requirement.

[TonySheppardNCC]

The DfE has recently update their advice about procurement of broadband and you can find it at Broadband - Schools ... and it is worth repeating that the present Government policy is not to provide stipulations but there is an expectation that schools will make their own judgements based on established requirements (primarily around curriculum need), effective legislation and the available technology.

 

In Northamptonshire the Schools Broadband Working Group has prepared a decision support document to assist schools making their decision, and it is available on various school websites. We would also recommend you discuss the requirements with your LA, Academy group or other partners as there may be requirement based on how you also take other services.

 

The requirements around filtering are indeed a legal requirement around the safeguarding of children. Advice around this can be found in various locations and I would strongly recommend you have a look at the resources in the eSafety forum on this site, in particular the links to SWGfL and the work they have done with the UK Safer Internet Centre. Some RBCs and companies providing filtering systems (whether as part of RBC provision or for other solutions outside of RBC connections) also provide guidance around the ethics and balance of managing filtering and enabling access to resources.

 

The requirements around SLAs are considered as part of Best Value / Value for Money and are part of the suitability measurement when choosing products / companies to work with. Part of this is the consideration of a managed network or a more bare bones offering.

 

The requirement for access to JANET is two-fold. Firstly is around the use of the NEN, including materials which have been collectively purchased or made available for schools. Having access to JANET does not explicitly give you access to these resources (including the British Pathé materials, Audio Network, and resources from other RBCs which are subsequently made available) as the NEN (or The Education Network as it will be known) is part of a collective group of RBCs and other agencies. However, being on JANET also means that you peer to other associated networks (Universities, government departments, BBC, content providers who have arranged to peer onto JANET, etc) which reduce the latency between the school and these sites.