Live@edu vs. Exchange?

[Gongalong]

Hi folks,

 

Couldn't find a specific email/Exchange forum, so am asking here:

 

We're currently using the rather basic Hants CC provided email system, which is primarily a webmail system but with nothing other than the ability to create simple accounts that do not interact with each other e.g. no groups, no address book.

 

The plan is to move this forward, and the two obvious contenders are Exchange and Live.edu. Has anyone else out there been in the same or similar position, and if so what did you decide and are you happy with the decision?

 

The obvious advantages of (self hosted) Exchange are that (a) you own it and (b) you can still use it on the LAN if the Internet goes down, but it will require some consultancy for the install and setup. The advantages of Live.edu are that (a) it's free and (b) seems to have a similar if not identical feature set to Exchange, but it's not available if there's an Internet issue and does not connect in to our current AD.

 

As above, thoughts appreciated, particularly by those who've been through this or a similar process.

 

TIA

Edited June 27, 2012 by Dos_Box

[CyberNerd]

Also look at Google Apps for education - it has a much richer feature set than live.edu

[teejay]

Also look at Google Apps for education - it has a much richer feature set than live.edu

 

Such as?

[CyberNerd]

These are the features that get linked to Google Apps domain accounts, some are not so useful, but things like sites, picassa and docs are fantastic education tools:

 

Contacts

Gmail

Google Calendar

Google Docs

Google Groups for Business

Google Sites

Google Talk

Google Wave

Marketplace Apps

Aviary Design Tools

Gantter Project

Blogger

Chrome Web Store

DART for Publishers

DoubleClick Customer Resource Center

DoubleClick DART Enterprise

DoubleClick for Advertisers

DoubleClick for Publishers

DoubleClick Search

DoubleClick Studio

FeedBurner

Google Ad Planner

Google AdSense

Google AdSense for TV

Google Advertising Professionals

Google AdWords

Google Affiliate Network

Google Analytics

Google App Engine

Google Base

Google Bookmarks

Google Books

Google Checkout

Google Chrome Sync

Google Code

Google Custom Search

Google Finance

Google Friend Connect

Google Groups

Google Hotpot

Google Latitude

Google Map Maker

Google Maps

Google Moderator

Google News

Google Places

Google Public Data

Google Reader

Google Sidewiki

Google Squared

Google Subscribed Links

Google Translator Toolkit

Google Voice

Google Webmaster Tools

iGoogle

Mobile Test Tools

orkut

Panoramio

Picasa Web Albums

Shopping List

User Managed Storage

Web History

Website Optimizer

YouTube

YouTube CMS

YouTube Partner Syndication

YouTube Promoted Videos

 

Theres also third pary apps that plug into the same accounts. The active Directory integration is pretty good too.

 

https://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/?pli=1

[adhutton]

We've been using LIV@EDU for the best part of this year and in general we think its really good.

 

It does have some Pros and Cons:

 

Pros:

 

Its FREE and fairly easy to set up

Its hosted 'in the cloud' so is available via a web browser from anywhere

It has a lot of similar features to full Outlook/OWA

Its easy for users to get to grips with and to do basic stuff like adding folders, auto-replys etc.

It cuts down on in-house administration and backup worries

You can use lots of Powershell scripts to change stuff

 

Cons:

 

The Microsoft support is fairly slow/rubbish

Its quite hard to integrate with AD or other on-site servers

It does seem to struggle when receiving emails from some senders who use email filtering (small number)

It doesn't work very well with IE9 and the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

In the main we are very happy with it and when compared to the rubbish Fronter email system this school was using, its a million times better

 

Andrew

[sukh]

You need to gather the requirements and then see if live@edu can meet these, more than likely Exchnage on-prem will. Installing the on-prem Exchange can be difficult and at the same time it can be as simple as you want.

 

Depending on the requirements, you can probably setup Exchange yourself, if you have detailsed requirement from the users/school, then post/pm me and we can give you ideas on how to do this.

[glennda]

I use Exchange on Prem and if you want to come and see it and look at how we have setup in school you can.

 

Am around the Horsham area just inside West Sussex if you are close.

[Sylv3r]

The obvious advantages of (self hosted) Exchange are that (a) you own it and (b) you can still use it on the LAN if the Internet goes down, but it will require some consultancy for the install and setup. The advantages of Live.edu are that (a) it's free and (b) seems to have a similar if not identical feature set to Exchange, but it's not available if there's an Internet issue and does not connect in to our current AD.

 

As above, thoughts appreciated, particularly by those who've been through this or a similar process.

 

TIA

 

Live@Edu can connect to your AD but it requires quite a bit of jumping through hoops installing FIM etc. Currently working on this now - wish I hadn't bothered!

[MartinT]

You can't really beat Exchange on premises if you want best flexibility, internet independence (internally), ownership, easy integration with AD, straightforward backups and good integration with mobile devices. Not to mention unified comms if you have a suitable phone exchange.

 

Same offer goes here if you want to see one in action - we're in Ascot.

[Gongalong]

Thanks all for the really helpful replies, and the visit offers.

 

The slight negatives I'm hearing about Live.edu have me thinking that Exchange is the better route.

 

We already own all the licenses required to deploy Exchange, it's just the technical barrier to getting it installed. As mentioned on previous posts, I completed an MCSA course in 2006, but my skills are pretty rusty, and of course it didn't cover "engineer" (install) type tasks, just administration.

 

The crux of it is that we have to set it up for around 1,500 people (staff and students), across two domains, with OWA as well through the Hants CC firewall.

 

The vague setup process as I see it:

 

1. Setup of 2008 R2 server (we use Hyper-V, and already have a template)

2. Install and setup of Exchange (I'm not sure of the detail here) including OWA and configuring of DPM

3. Opening of ports in Hants CC firewall (for a nominal fee)

4. Redirection of MX record, presumably to NAT'd address that routes to server

 

The devil is really in the detail here. I'm not sure what is required to setup Exchange, or the port and TCP/IP NAT details. This is why I was thinking it would be better to go the consultant route.

[CyberNerd]

Thanks all for the really helpful replies, and the visit offers.

 

The slight negatives I'm hearing about Live.edu have me thinking that Exchange is the better route.

 

Just out of interest, why are you discounting Google off the bat when you were prepared to look at live@edu ? I appreciate live@edu isn't all that good with respect to AD integration and support compared to google. Had you already decided on exchange? We replaced our exchange with Google, and it has been a breath of fresh air not having to worry about another server.

[Gongalong]

Just out of interest, why are you discounting Google off the bat when you were prepared to look at live@edu ? I appreciate live@edu isn't all that good with respect to AD integration and support compared to google. Had you already decided on exchange? We replaced our exchange with Google, and it has been a breath of fresh air not having to worry about another server.

We wanted to stick with Microsoft because of the familiarity students will have with the apps, and also because Live.edu seems to have generally had a better reception than the Gooogle equivalent (significantly more accounts out there). Google have pulled several services that haven't been popular.

 

tbh though Exchange really seems like the way to go because of server ownership. I would even be wary of MS pulling Live.edu in years to come which means we have to start over.

 

None of the options stand head and shoulders above the others though, which makes the decision difficult. And it has to be justified to senior staff here.

[CyberNerd]

We wanted to stick with Microsoft because of the familiarity students will have with the apps, and also because Live.edu seems to have generally had a better reception than the Gooogle equivalent (significantly more accounts out there). Google have pulled several services that haven't been popular.

 

That's the bit I have trouble reconciling, people choose MS because they already have MS even though the competition may have better support, better features and be cheaper.

I'm not just talking google apps here; take for example KVM or windows file sharing EVERYBODY seems to have a windows fileserver, yet a Redhat one costs less, can be setup in 30 min, has an annual support contract and has a bunch of features windows doesn't support. It's crazy.

 

for what it's worth; if your worried that students won't cope with google change, you can still use outlook, MSoffice and use google apps as a repository/mail server.

[Gongalong]

Although this doesn't cover the issues of the take up of Google's equivalent, nor Google's pulling of services with low take up.

 

I've not raised the post though to debate Google vs. Live.edu (or other services). My key issue here is comparing Live.edu with Exchange, and more so perhaps what would be involved in setting up Exchange. Feel free to create the other issue as a new post on the forum.

[CyberNerd]

Although this doesn't cover the issues of the take up of Google's equivalent, nor Google's pulling of services with low take up.

 

I didn't bite because it's not correct. By March 2010 there were 25Million Google apps users, but nearly a year later MS only mustered 15Million @edu acounts

Microsoft details Office 365 for education plans | Microsoft - CNET News

Official Google Blog: 25 million people have gone Google

 

Most of the services google ditch such as wave, postini get integrated into their other products plus and gmail

[teejay]

I didn't bite because it's not correct. By March 2010 there were 25Million Google apps users, but nearly a year later MS only mustered 15Million @edu acounts

Microsoft details Office 365 for education plans | Microsoft - CNET News

Official Google Blog: 25 million people have gone Google

 

Most of the services google ditch such as wave, postini get integrated into their other products plus and gmail

 

That's comparing 25 million Goog Apps users IN TOTAL, ie edu+business+private users against 15 million EDU users of live@edu, it misses out the private+business users of the other versions of Microsoft Live, which I'm sure will be over 10 million .

Edited November 9, 2011 by teejay

[SYNACK]

Most of the services google ditch such as wave, postini get integrated into their other products plus and gmail

 

Your comment made me think of this and I just had to...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEPXk0kEcas

 

[CyberNerd]

That's comparing 25 million Goog Apps users IN TOTAL, ie edu+business+private users against 15 million EDU users of live@edu, it misses out the private+business users of the other versions of Microsoft Live, which I'm sure will be over 10 million .

 

Moot point if MS didn't deem live@edu good enough to release to business.

[teejay]

Moot point if MS didn't deem live@edu good enough to release to business.

Yes, they do, it's under the Office Live branding, which is moving to Office 365.

[SYNACK]

Moot point if MS didn't deem live@edu good enough to release to business.

 

Its called Office 365 and yes businesses do use it. I don't have any idea of figures though, both systems provide a service that is useful, some prefer one over the other, sans the pissing contest, the end.

[CyberNerd]

My apologies, I though 365 was a different service than @edu or are microsoft now dropping @edu in favour of 365? (I er, mean integrating into another product)

[SYNACK]

My apologies, I though 365 was a different service than @edu or are microsoft now dropping @edu in favour of 365? (I er, mean integrating into another product)

 

Pretty much the same thing just a different name and more expantion possibilities, you can pay a bit more and get Sharepoint, Lync/Exchange voice services, video calling etc.

 

Back to the OP:

Exchange internally give you local speed, and full control over it so you can customise it more, add extentions etc. Live@edu means les control, full dependence on the internet even for internal mail, internet link limited speed but also means that someone else looks after the hardware and software.

 

Exchange is not really that bad in my experience, pretty set and forget other than the odd service pack that breaks little things. Just give it a decent chunk of hardware and back it up regularly (to allow the logs and DBs to compress propperly) and its usually pretty happy.

Edited November 9, 2011 by SYNACK

[teejay]

My apologies, I though 365 was a different service than @edu or are microsoft now dropping @edu in favour of 365? (I er, mean integrating into another product)

 

live@edu is being replaced with an edu version of Office 365, yes.

[CyberNerd]

Pretty much the same thing just a different name and more expantion possibilities, you can pay a bit more and get Sharepoint, Lync/Exchange voice services, video calling etc.

 

 

live@edu is being replaced with an edu version of Office 365, yes.

 

Thought as much. Thats what the OP was complaining about. You get voice and video calls free with google domains, along with SDC to connect to internal sites for web mashups. I'll stop now.

[Gongalong]

I'm talking about the specific education versions of these services though. I read an article from this year which stated that Google had been cagey about their figures for education take up, but that they were in the sub 10 million figure. Microsoft had equally been cagey, but said they were in excess of 10 million, or at least 10s of millions. I did not save the link, but I'm guessing a quick Google (irony noted!) would find it.

 

Irrespective of whether it's Google or Microsoft in terms of the online service, there are still advantages to having a local service instead. It's more the case for me of comparing the online vs. local in terms of what's best. I'm still thinking it's the latter for control reasons, despite the additional cost, and swayed by some of the views above about Live.edu.

 

The MS vs. Linux (etc.) debate is probably going to be no different here to anywhere else. We could switch the whole school to Linux, but it would require significant investment in terms of the time to do it and upgrading the skill of the team here. One of a number of reasons why it wouldn't be very practical just to be different.