Could Microsoft set up a Windows 7 network?

[garethEds]

With all these issues that we read about here on Edugeek with Windows 7, the quirks, the problems etc I wonder if Microsoft themselves could setup a network with their own operating systems.

 

It really seems as if they haven't thought about the enterprise customer when providing the business versions of the software.

 

Maybe it's because everyone's network is different - but simple things seem impossible to do (based on posts here) because it really does seem that MS have not thought about it.

 

Gareth

[irsprint84]

I think they re forcing people to go their new direction, quirks are more when you want to keep old ways, which I ve done

[AngryTechnician]

From what we were told on the Edugeek Windows 7 event just before it was launched, Microsoft's own internal domain is surprisingly un-restrictive. Most employees build their workstation themselves from a base WDS image and have full admin rights to their own machine.

 

I remember thinking at the time that explained a lot!

 

To be honest, I've had very few problems with setup or lockdown of our Windows 7 network. You do have to approach some things from a slightly different angle to XP, but we had a successful Vista deployment in my last school so I had plenty of practice in advance. I think a lot of people have had bad habits ingrained from having XP for so long, or just aren't used to thinking about how to achieve a particular goal because they always done it a particular way with XP.

Edited July 4, 2011 by AngryTechnician

[featured_spectre]

If you have a mixed network there are inherent issues, however if you have a full W7 network, it runs smooth as silk

[SYNACK]

They ran it internally from long before it was released but their setup is much different from the average school. There are issues as with any OS and the jump from Windows 9x and NT server to XP and 2000 had many wound up for a fair while when it was introduced also.

 

I also agree with AT, having had a Vista setup beforehand mad 7 a snap as all/most of the lessons had already been learned years beforehand.

Edited July 4, 2011 by SYNACK

[Dos_Box]

I suspect it's more to do with the fact that education has higher demands on the configuration of the operating system than the average corporate support department encounters, coupled with being in a more 'mixed OS' environment it makes each Microsoft OS release, with it's extra 'unique' features, and quirks that bit more difficult. Perhaps a thread listing all the things that need addressing in W7 and subsequent releases +links on the forums to fixes and solutions when they come about would be in order. Edited July 4, 2011 by Dos_Box

[featured_spectre]

Not a bad idea DB, however the thing would be that because most people are running a mixed environment some of the problems are unfixable (MSDNAA and Technet guru's have stated this before).

 

If it is a pure W7/2008R2 network then yeah the forum idea would be good because then any issues could be fixed on a quick turnaround

[DrCheese]

I've not had many problems with it tbh. Just a few minor teething issues at the start but other than that it's ran fine. If anything I'd say our support calls relating to Windows issues have gone way down.

Things like imaging are a billion times easier now as I can maintain one image for the entire site, rather than 4/5 for various hardware types. Took me a few days to get my head around WDS/MDT after using RIS for so long but it was worth it.

 

It just took takes a while to get out of the old XP mindset and it's ways of doing things. If you ignored Vista then a lot of the concepts will be slightly alien to you at first but bare with it

Likewise with your networking setup (i.e GPOs/reg fixes blah blah) will be based around XP and would have been used for years. These will need dusting off and updating. Our XP policies out of the box totally broke Windows 7, murdered the Aero theme and made the start menu unusable. Didn't take too long to get those sorted.

[teejay]

How about at the next Microsoft/Edugeek conference, Microsoft set up their idea of an educational network and we break it ;-)

[joe90bass]

It's taken me a while to get around to thinking of the Vista/7 way of doing things, which has probably caused a few of the issues we've had (thankfully only minor niggles!). We still have a lot of XP machines so we'll be a mixed site for some time yet.

[Dos_Box]

Not a bad idea DB, however the thing would be that because most people are running a mixed environment some of the problems are unfixable (MSDNAA and Technet guru's have stated this before).

 

If it is a pure W7/2008R2 network then yeah the forum idea would be good because then any issues could be fixed on a quick turnaround

 

I wouldn't say unfixable, what we are good at here is workarounds. Yes, they may be ugly be more often than not we get around these problems on EduGeek. But Perhaps we could collectively get Microsoft on board with this, as some solutions involve workarounds that Microsoft either are not aware of or fall out of their remit such as using third party tools to get the job done and as such wouldn't appear in knowlebase articles.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Dos_Box

[jinnantonnixx]

If all you did was run Windows (and no apps) I dare say it would be reasonably straightforward.

 

So many patches and bodges are needed to get software to work, my head spins.

 

Software that needs to install a new version of MS Installer to install? Makes you scream. Admittedly doesn't affect W7 yet, but that time will come...

Installers that come as EXEs not MSIs?

MSIs that don't allow for GP deployment?

Software that sprays files to arbitrary areas on the OS disk, assuming that the user has full privileges?

And drive letters! What is this - 1987? Are we still on CP/M?

 

That wretched .V2 profile problem... see other posts for details.....

 

I'm on Grouch-level 3 this morning.

Edited July 4, 2011 by jinnantonnixx

[featured_spectre]

If you run MS only software (Windows, Office etc) then that's fine, it wont break.

 

Problem comes in when you add in 3rd party applications which is what cause most of the breakdowns.

[jinnantonnixx]

Looking on the bright side, if the whole MS ecosystem wasn't such a headache, it would be simpler to support and a lot of us would be out of jobs.

[CyberNerd]

If you run MS only software (Windows, Office etc) then that's fine, it wont break.

 

Problem comes in when you add in 3rd party applications which is what cause most of the breakdowns.

 

ironic, it's because of the third partt applications that we use Windows - if we didn't have windows only apps then we'd run ubuntu !

[TheScarfedOne]

I think there is a good running thread on Windows 7 networks going now - I think Ive added to it a few times. If its not stickied... can we? For the most part, when running on its own, it works very well. If you are doing any kind of co-existance; then you will have to have comprimises. The way I handled this before was loopback GPOs for XP, making sure that my 7 settings which were quite specific in the end didnt muddy the water on XP.

[DrCheese]

You can also use WMI filters for GPO's as well. I do this for stuff that I only want installing on XP, i.e the user hive profile cleanup service that is already installed by default on Windows 7

[Simcfc73]

Still trying to see the benefits of W7.. oh except for the wonderful libraries function. I will be sticking with XP for a while yet unless I have to. I've just bought some little N109 notebooks which have W7 on which I am still undecided what to do with.

[DrCheese]

Libraries are fine...

[SYNACK]

Still trying to see the benefits of W7.. oh except for the wonderful libraries function. I will be sticking with XP for a while yet unless I have to. I've just bought some little N109 notebooks which have W7 on which I am still undecided what to do with.

 

Run it for a while on some stations and watch the technical time spent on them reduce, Vista doubled my free time and 7 is better.

[sted]

Libraries are fine...

i would actually go as far to say are they are a huge improvement. I can easilly dump certain stuff off my main fully backed up servers to a less well specced server with a lower level of backup so thinks like th music golder instead of being in \\fileserver\users$\staff\%username%\my music i can shove it to \\dump\staff\%username%\my music same with pics. I can also more easily set these folders to not sync so nobodys y-tunes collection is on my server and my backup tapes and 3 laptops and . . . same goes with staffs holiday snaps. it is also a more logical structure separating things out more so they are easier to find. Granted this is only 100% true for 100% win7 environments but i will be rearranging staff user areas as soon as in any school the last xp machine goes away.

 

as to policies i used to create a separate ou for my win7 boxes then copy my pc policy and make ammendments now ive founf very little that dosent work on both (i do usually have a wmi filtered user policy but thats mainly little odds and sods)

[gshaw]

i would actually go as far to say are they are a huge improvement. I can easilly dump certain stuff off my main fully backed up servers to a less well specced server with a lower level of backup so thinks like th music golder instead of being in \\fileserver\users$\staff\%username%\my music i can shove it to \\dump\staff\%username%\my music same with pics. I can also more easily set these folders to not sync so nobodys y-tunes collection is on my server and my backup tapes and 3 laptops and . . . same goes with staffs holiday snaps. it is also a more logical structure separating things out more so they are easier to find. Granted this is only 100% true for 100% win7 environments but i will be rearranging staff user areas as soon as in any school the last xp machine goes away.

 

Isn't that just a feature of the finer-grained folder structure rather than Libraries though?

 

Some of the issues people have been having just strike me as dumb design not tailored for a corporate network. All MS had to do was add an extra GPO to disable the libraries, local user profile name folder etc then it would run much more smoothly. Instead we have registry hacks and various bodges to avoid confusion for users and files ending up in the wrong place.

[DrCheese]

They don't really need disabling. The only thing that I wish I could disable is the ability for a user to add or delete folders from a library. It makes no sense to me why you can't disable that.

But I've yet to come across any students/staff here doing that and we've been running Windows 7 for nearly a year now.

[gshaw]

They don't really need disabling. The only thing that I wish I could disable is the ability for a user to add or delete folders from a library. It makes no sense to me why you can't disable that.

But I've yet to come across any students/staff here doing that and we've been running Windows 7 for nearly a year now.

 

In which case what advantage is gained from them being there? Just seems to add another layer of confusion for users who are used to just having a folder where all their data is kept. Might be OK for home users but doesn't seem to make much sense on a network with folder redirection.

[DrCheese]

The users don't notice any difference, to them documents still goes to their home directories. As I said, no user has ever added or deleted a folder here.

 

I wouldn't touch any unofficial registry fixes with a bargepole as it will be totally unsupported by Microsoft. The ones i've seen kicking around don't remove the references to libraries in all places either and could end up breaking something else so it's much more hassle than it's worth.