Chrome will bring about the ICT revolution in schools

[spannerman2]

I just don't see how these will be useful to a school at the moment. , the machines have to be capable of doing all the specialist stuff, as well as the 'web based' or 'office' stuff.

 

These sort of machines would mean we'd have to maintain a stock of machines for all the existing stuff, and also maintain these machines too. Just not feasible.

 

I was going to reply to david81 (above) who (like so many now) knows one thing and that is the current model has to change..the details are to be worked out my suggestions are just one of the pot...and then I read your post which translates as..

.." this is how it is, no matter how esoteric, expensive and/or outdated the app, we must keep them going..any change just means more new stuff'!!

 

Economic reality? Cuts? Just how rich are you?

 

and... Dreamweaver as good school software, please God who is still around dumb enough to pay web designers who insist on their Dreamweaver CSSs as 'essential' to the web site you pay for..10 years ago ok but now?..soon you'll be citing Photoshop as a career maker for budding graphics kids.

[MK-2]

.soon you'll be citing Photoshop as a career maker for budding graphics kids.

 

i totally agree. when student x goes for a job in graphic design, im pretty sure most graphic designers now will ask if they have MS paint or google online paint experience.

 

i mean who needs experience with higher end software? why bother with office suites, why not just give them chalk and slate, most offices now don't want people with microsoft word experience, just the ability to jab a piece of chalk into that slate thingy and make pretty pictures

 

 

are you seriously saying that we should not buy/use software that caters to a specific area or need?

[LiamH]

As above, the pupils need experience with software they will be using in a work / home environment.

 

Media studies and Drama use video editing software

ICT use mediator, Serif, audacity and software like Alice

MFL use a specialist classroom control suite (sanako) and various recording software

Art use Adobe software ( photoshop /flash )

DT use CAD software

 

plus all the education software bought over the years for various departments used once a year for task x, y or z

 

I can only see it being used effectively in 1 or 2 departments, or mobile classrooms. Most of the time we get asked to install additional software on the mobile classrooms anyway which would be a none starter with this.

[localzuk]

I was going to reply to david81 (above) who (like so many now) knows one thing and that is the current model has to change..the details are to be worked out my suggestions are just one of the pot...and then I read your post which translates as..

.." this is how it is, no matter how esoteric, expensive and/or outdated the app, we must keep them going..any change just means more new stuff'!!

 

Economic reality? Cuts? Just how rich are you?

 

and... Dreamweaver as good school software, please God who is still around dumb enough to pay web designers who insist on their Dreamweaver CSSs as 'essential' to the web site you pay for..10 years ago ok but now?..soon you'll be citing Photoshop as a career maker for budding graphics kids.

 

Sorry but you simply have no idea what its like working in a school *now*. Sure you may have experienced it at one point in your career, but things have changed. Schemes of work are set and people teach to them. It is unfair and unreasonable to expect teachers to have to replace something they've been teaching for 10 years simply because a new fad has arrived.

 

Sure, things need to change to become more sustainable but this does not mean that we should all scrap our current systems and move to 'the cloud' (which has been shown to be unreliable when looking at the downtime for Amazon, and for the Microsoft service outage recently).

 

What about those of us who are moving to a sustainable solution based on thin clients in some areas and maintaining fat clients in others. A mixed model, rather than trying to force a 'one size fits all' model on everyone (something which BSF tried to do, and failed at).

 

The economic reality is that retraining all staff to move to an entirely different system to the one they've been using for a decade, and different from the one new teachers are taught using at university, and then expecting them to be able to teach it now is prohibitively expensive. We rolled out SIMS.net to staff about 4 years ago, and we've only just this year finished the series of insets training them how to use what they need to. Can you imagine how long it would take to get rid of all the different software we use now??

 

Also, you ignored the aspects about hardware - control for example. Electronic voting systems. Microphones etc... How do these fit into your cloud future?

 

You seem to think I'm stuck in the mud, but I'm all for modernising things. However, there's change for reason and change simply because its new - the latter is what is being proposed here and I just don't see the advantages!

[dave.81]

Maybe we are different being an Independent but i know our schemes of work can change yearly with exam boards changing things. We do not have stacks of special software, infact i can only name 1 across the departments that is used. We have Macromedia MX installed but is not need by any subjects, not even ICT.

 

I agree that a 'one size fits all' approach is not going to work, the right tool for the right job is key. But to through out new ideas because it wont fit all is wrong as well. I can see our IT suites replaced with this or something similar and see no effect on the teaching, IF the correct infrastructure (net connection) was in place.

 

Electronic voting systems, now there is a waste of money, whats wrong with a show of hands? But cloud based use a shared spreadsheet or questionnaire not difficult. Mic's it's a netbook surely it'll have them built in seen they come with a webcam. Control of hardware, not sure which area of control you mean, but proxy settings, Homepages, default app's, blocked app's are all controlled via google apps management console for the devices.

 

I'm not saying these are the answer to future IT in schools but if new things are not discussed then we'll still be sat here in another 10 years saying we cant change for the same reason's that are being stated now, surely?

 

I'm not sure if people remember but last Sept there was a post about a school in Scotland who went 1:1 with the iPad's and did away with their IT suites, i remember the posts about how it would be a disaster, would never work and teaching would suffer etc etc etc... i've been following the blog of the guy who did it and it appears to have been a great success and not just in his opinion. I'm not saying this is the way forward for everywhere but it shows that until these things are tested we just dont know what is best.

Edited May 27, 2011 by dave.81

[gshaw]

Spot on localzuk!

 

Not sure if the Google EULA-hula is still the same but would you trust your entire infrastructure to this?

 

Discussion on: Inside the Google Chrome OS security model | ZDNet

 

The danger is that once you move your infrastructure away you won't get it back due to the costs of starting again from scratch so if Google one day decides it's got enough market share and hikes the prices up... what can you do then?

 

The Cloud is a service, one of many different pieces of the overall jigsaw to be used in the right place based on its merits and disadvantages. It's not the entire solution, reminds me of "universal fit" car parts... fits all, fits nothing!

[localzuk]

Maybe we are different being an Independent but i know our schemes of work can change yearly with exam boards changing things. We do not have stacks of special software, infact i can only name 1 across the departments that is used. We have Macromedia MX installed but is not need by any subjects, not even ICT.

 

I agree that a 'one size fits all' approach is not going to work, the right tool for the right job is key. But to through out new ideas because it wont fit all is wrong as well. I can see our IT suites replaced with this or something similar and see no effect on the teaching, IF the correct infrastructure (net connection) was in place.

 

Electronic voting systems, now there is a waste of money, whats wrong with a show of hands? But cloud based use a shared spreadsheet or questionnaire not difficult. Mic's it's a netbook surely it'll have them built in seen they come with a webcam. Control of hardware, not sure which area of control you mean, but proxy settings, Homepages, default app's, blocked app's are all controlled via google apps management console for the devices.

 

I'm not saying these are the answer to future IT in schools but if new things are not discussed then we'll still be sat here in another 10 years saying we cant change for the same reason's that are being stated now, surely?

 

Mic's - portable microphones, used in small groups in lessons. Not microphones in laptops. Kinda like dictaphones, but for computers. Or what about things like Flip video cameras etc...

 

Control - I mean systems and control, the curriculum subject in D&T.

 

You are in a truly unique position if you have no specialist stuff. What about CAD software? We use 2D Design here, and use a Roland vinyl cutter with it. What about video editing? What about your music department? Ours has 3 different pieces of specialist software, not including audacity.

[MK-2]

Maybe we are different being an Independent

 

we are too, and to be honest i dont think parents would be too happy paying x thousand every year to be told "we know your child wants to learn about graphical design but we decided to install paint for them which should mean they at least get a job designing the menu for the local greasy spoon"

we have a lot of subject specific software, not all specialised, but we do have some adobe stuff, some web design stuff and as localzuk mentions, music specific, CAD specific too

[SYNACK]

Hmmm, it does seem a bit backward to throw out the best tools for the job to replace them with something that might furfil the basics if its lucky.

[dave.81]

I wont get into too much but the only department that uses anything other than basic software is Music. I'm not saying i'd replace the entire school with these, or another device, but i do believe something like this can be useful in a school. It's the right tool for the right job again, and i dont think full blown desktops are needed everywhere.

 

The world is moving to a browser based lifetime, surely without looking forward schools will get left behind. Aren't we meant to teach them for the future not the past? I wouldn't dream of removing the Mac suite for these but why shouldn't the Library be something like this? Or our Boarding house communal pc's with something like this.

[CyberNerd]

 

The danger is that once you move your infrastructure away you won't get it back due to the costs of starting again from scratch so if Google one day decides it's got enough market share and hikes the prices up... what can you do then?

 

which is exactly the same as Microsoft's business model, with the exception that Google's API's are open.

[SYNACK]

The world is moving to a browser based lifetime, surely without looking forward schools will get left behind.

We use metric tonnes of software that is not browser based and is better for it, please stop speaking for the whole world. There is a place for cheaper more robust devices that can be used along side but completely replacing a working system with something like this is premature and irrisponcible at this point in many places.

Edited May 27, 2011 by SYNACK

[CyberNerd]

 

The world is moving to a browser based lifetime, surely without looking forward schools will get left behind. Aren't we meant to teach them for the future not the past?

 

agree 100%, which is why we have put in the infrastructure to allow non web based apps to run over the web.

[dave.81]

I've never claimed that replacing the entire system with these or anything else is the way forward. I'm sorry for mis-reading the way that IT is going, i know for us here and all my friends and family that everything they do on a PC is moving to browser systems, guess we all must life in a little bubble.

 

I agree replacing a working system with something so new would be mad but should we not discuss how new devices/tech could, in the future, improve ICT and teaching in schools?

[teejay]

agree 100%, which is why we have put in the infrastructure to allow non web based apps to run over the web.

 

Hope you've costed and checked your licensing properly for doing this, there are loads of apps for which the standard licence doesn't cover use through terminal services/citrix or being made available outside of the network and published over the internet, even if secured.

[teejay]

I've never claimed that replacing the entire system with these or anything else is the way forward. I'm sorry for mis-reading the way that IT is going, i know for us here and all my friends and family that everything they do on a PC is moving to browser systems, guess we all must life in a little bubble.

 

I agree replacing a working system with something so new would be mad but should we not discuss how new devices/tech could, in the future, improve ICT and teaching in schools?

 

Agreed, but the original post is about skipping your entire infrastructure and replacing with chromebooks.

[CyberNerd]

Hope you've costed and checked your licensing properly for doing this, there are loads of apps for which the standard licence doesn't cover use through terminal services/citrix or being made available outside of the network and published over the internet, even if secured.

 

yes. college policy is that we support anywhere anytime learning. we only purchase software that meets these criteria.

[LiamH]

Another point the think about is how will you monitor what its used for? If it uses a Google account to store information in "the cloud" everyone would have their own account with no way to monitor usage as a whole.

 

I know with cyber bullying issues here we have had to check student accounts / emails (covered by the AUP) to resolve these things, it would be a lot harder under a cloud system like this.

[gshaw]

which is exactly the same as Microsoft's business model, with the exception that Google's API's are open.

 

My point is around the Cloud model as a whole, regardless of whether that provider is Google, Microsoft, Amazon or anyone else.

 

I've never claimed that replacing the entire system with these or anything else is the way forward. I'm sorry for mis-reading the way that IT is going, i know for us here and all my friends and family that everything they do on a PC is moving to browser systems, guess we all must life in a little bubble.

 

I agree replacing a working system with something so new would be mad but should we not discuss how new devices/tech could, in the future, improve ICT and teaching in schools?

 

If done in a rational, sensible way with a proper cost \ benefit analysis and based on where \ how the new tech would improve on the current system then yes. Maybe this is where you're coming from rather than the OP's idea, in which case fair enough. Part of IT is evaluating the new technologies as they appear (VDI is a good example at the moment) then choosing the right time to move towards it.

 

Jumping on a bandwagon for a product that's barely been released with no forethought and logic in the decision apart from "it's new so must be better" hmmm think I'll pass...

Edited May 27, 2011 by gshaw

[CyberNerd]

Another point the think about is how will you monitor what its used for? If it uses a Google account to store information in "the cloud" everyone would have their own account with no way to monitor usage as a whole.

 

I know with cyber bullying issues here we have had to check student accounts / emails (covered by the AUP) to resolve these things, it would be a lot harder under a cloud system like this.

 

google education apps accounts allow you to all these things.

[LiamH]

google education apps accounts allow you to all these things.

 

Good to know ta

 

Can you restrict users logging into personal accounts on the school machine for example?

[dave.81]

Gshaw that is my point, i wouldn't dare say jump on the bandwagon of something new, because it's new.

 

Technology is becoming more mobile i dont think anyone could argue with that? A device like this is, i believe, a step forward. Is it the answer, no i dont think so. But to right it off before it's even released is a little backwards.

 

Who isn't to say that this device leads onto another which everyone suddenly thinks is the answer. Reading through articles with the increasing amount of large international companies moving to Cloud, SaaS or PaaS, surely we in education cannot ignore this on the basis of "this is how it's been for 10 years"? Yes it's new tech and isn't mature but that doesn't mean it's not the future. We will need new devices to make the most of this change, something like the Chromebooks are a step towards it.

 

I was going to answer LiamH post but Cybernerd beat me to it. We use Google Eduction and have no problems keeping an eye on the students, or staff.

[CyberNerd]

probably. depends on how your SSO works, for example you could conceivabley block the google sign on page and redirect to an inhouse single sign on gateway.

wont help with 3g though

[gshaw]

Gshaw that is my point, i wouldn't dare say jump on the bandwagon of something new, because it's new.

 

Technology is becoming more mobile i dont think anyone could argue with that? A device like this is, i believe, a step forward. Is it the answer, no i dont think so. But to right it off before it's even released is a little backwards.

 

 

Fair points and I think you've successfully distanced yourself from Spannerman's over-excitable posting and into a much more reasoned and logical discussion

[CyberNerd]

The danger is that once you move your infrastructure away you won't get it back due to the costs of starting again from scratch so if Google one day decides it's got enough market share and hikes the prices up... what can you do then?.

 

My point is around the Cloud model as a whole, regardless of whether that provider is Google, Microsoft, Amazon or anyone else.

 

 

Understood. I was making the point that it is the same situation in all walks of IT, cloud based or not.

I recall when MS used to give away TSCals for free with windows 2000/XP - until enough people started using it then there was a massive price hike ( £10 extra for a TS Cal on a £30 windows license for a school) There are countless other example such as when Capita force an MS Office/MSSQL/Windows upgrade

 

Unless you insist on open standards in your procurement process there is always a risk that your data isn't in your hands or that you will be forced to part with more money to access it.