IT_Guy Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Ignorance of the law is NOT a defence. Saying you are not a lawyer will never hold up in court! i. This is not a catch all allowing everything to be copied at will. It is a limited and specific issue. ii. See i. iii. Schools are not news outlets. iv. This is specific to incidental things. For example, you're filming a performance on your stage and someone's mobile goes off and plays a song which is copyright. v. Again, this is very limited to specific instances. vi. Not relevant. vii. Recording of materials in schools require licenses. See A Guide to Copyright Licensing in Schools viii. Personal use is not relevant in a school. ix. Non-profits also require a license. See A Guide to Copyright Licensing in Schools You don't own data on the servers, but the school does, and you are the primary technical manager of those systems, so are responsible for them. As I said, I never implied you were personally responsible for these issues, but your school is. Turning a blind eye simply because you don't know the law will not cover you if you are dragged in front of a disciplinary panel after the school ends up in trouble because of it. I wasn't suggesting that all the exceptions were relevant, I was merely suggesting that your statement that "Copyright law is standard, copying a file etc... without copyright permission is an offence" highlights your ignorance of the Law rather than mine.
localzuk Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I wasn't suggesting that all the exceptions were relevant, I was merely suggesting that your statement that "Copyright law is standard, copying a file etc... without copyright permission is an offence" highlights your ignorance of the Law rather than mine. No, it doesn't. It means that you are working from a 'we should believe everything is allowed' point of view, rather than a 'nothing is allowed, except specifically allowed'. The prior approach can lead your school into hot water, whereas the latter will keep it protected from copyright problems. You specifically said 'I'm not a lawyer'. This not a defence. Your school cannot and will not be able to stand up in a court and say 'sorry, we didn't realise we were breaking the law, we're not lawyers'. And as I said, I am not specifying that YOU as an individual have to police it, but rather your school does. Simply having a policy stating everyone is required to look after their own copyright requirements will not carry any weight in a legal case.
IT_Guy Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 No, it doesn't. It means that you are working from a 'we should believe everything is allowed' point of view, rather than a 'nothing is allowed, except specifically allowed'. The prior approach can lead your school into hot water, whereas the latter will keep it protected from copyright problems. You specifically said 'I'm not a lawyer'. This not a defence. Your school cannot and will not be able to stand up in a court and say 'sorry, we didn't realise we were breaking the law, we're not lawyers'. And as I said, I am not specifying that YOU as an individual have to police it, but rather your school does. Simply having a policy stating everyone is required to look after their own copyright requirements will not carry any weight in a legal case. OK, when I said "I'm not a lawyer and I suspect your not either" I was trying to be nice, I'll be a little more blunt. I wasn't asking for opinions from random strangers on the internet, I was asking for the Law relating to Copyright. I've found the relevant documents so if you don't mind I'll use them as my reliable source rather than your sweeping generalisation that copying is an offence. The fact that I was requesting the source documents would suggest that I fall into the 'checking the facts' point of view rather than either of the points of view you have created. Do you look after Health and Safety in your school? You should, you'd fit right in.
IT_Guy Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 A member of slt has just had this - looks like we could be ok. I got the email as well. The link on the email goes to a DofE page saying: "The Department is making all 3,500 15min Teachers TV programmes and related content freely available on a non-exclusive basis. In return for undertaking to stream the programmes free at the point of use, you would be allowed to use the Teachers TV content commercially in the UK and in other countries. A full copy of the distribution agreement will be available to download. Details of where you can access digital versions of the programmes will be published here shortly. If you are interested in entering into an agreement with the Department and the National Archives to distribute the Teachers TV archive please contact teachers.tv@EduCation.gsi.gov.uk for more details." So as long as someone agrees to distribute/host the programmes its looking good.
jamesfed Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 I think its a pretty decent decision - infact when asking a number of the tech savvy teachers here they all said Youtube is way better - looking back in the web usage logs Teacher TV hasn't had a single visit in the past 6 months.
GrumbleDook Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 OK, when I said "I'm not a lawyer and I suspect your not either" I was trying to be nice, I'll be a little more blunt. I wasn't asking for opinions from random strangers on the internet, I was asking for the Law relating to Copyright. I've found the relevant documents so if you don't mind I'll use them as my reliable source rather than your sweeping generalisation that copying is an offence. The fact that I was requesting the source documents would suggest that I fall into the 'checking the facts' point of view rather than either of the points of view you have created. Do you look after Health and Safety in your school? You should, you'd fit right in. Come on folk ... play nice ... the comments are getting a bit much and it is just folk doing their interpretation of the law ... something many of us are paid to do. The law is a very woolly thing and whilst none of use are lawyers we have to work from existing knowledge and good practice which has been challenged, either through the rigours of audits or through legal challenge. Not many of us are likely to be in that position so we end up with folk looking for interpretations of the law. It is rare to find an out and out perfect case for everything which has a possible legal context. Those of who are paid to do this sort of thing in our day job will often hold our hands up and say "This is as good as I can give you as it is a grey area ... the best you can do is make sure that you are not left out on a limb should things go wrong". This is why things like the DP guidance from Becta was so difficult for some folk to accept ... and Becta were working on it with one of the best firms for DP advice and guidance. Most of what we have to do is managing risk. That is not something that is set out in law as each company / institute will differ slightly (see previous explanation about whether you go more for a tech solution or a policy solution) and so you are left with folk having to make judgement calls based on the best of their knowledge ... which includes talking to random people to find good practice. Whether you pick it up here (with examples of documentation, etc) or pick it up from places like TechRepublic ... it amounts to the same thing. That is why people chat on the internet about lots of things. This is also why I keep asking people to share their documentation and policies ... to make life easier for others asking the questions you are looking for. You are not on your own in this situation.
GrumbleDook Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 The Dept has said they will make sure it is accessible, but repeatedly failed to respond when people ask how. As of yet it has not been made public about how people will access these and it goes offline tomorrow. I am not saying that it is cutting it fine but ... Most of the videos which can be saved have now been saved by the #saveTTV group and folk are now trying to gather the associated resources for each video.
IT_Guy Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Come on folk ... play nice ... the comments are getting a bit much...... If you think the comments are bad you should see the PM's I'm getting! The problem with the Copyright law as it relates to Schools is I don't think it's really been tested in court - or I can't find any information on any cases, please feel free to let me know of any - and any advisors will always err on the side of caution, so we end up with draconian policies not related to actual law. A similar approach that leads to school trips being banned and pupils wearing goggles when playing conkers. (Yes, I know it was a joke by the Headmaster) I wouldn't presume to know what would be acceptable in a court of law myself but I'll follow the relevant Law on Fair dealing in Good Faith and throw myself on the mercy of the court when I get grassed up to the Copyright Police. They'll never take me alive!!
IT_Guy Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 The Dept has said they will make sure it is accessible, but repeatedly failed to respond when people ask how. As of yet it has not been made public about how people will access these and it goes offline tomorrow. I am not saying that it is cutting it fine but ... Most of the videos which can be saved have now been saved by the #saveTTV group and folk are now trying to gather the associated resources for each video. The page at DofE Link seems to be asking for volunteers to host the files, I think their getting desperate!
Andie Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 I've just opened the email from Teachers TV again to go to the DfE links (to see what has been done about hosting), and each link is returning a "Page not found" notice now! Nice of them to keep us all informed....
GrumbleDook Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 All the CA videos where captured and now the descriptive text which was on each page (and resources if they were also CA) are being matched up to them ... there is still some discussion about where things can be hosted, but remember that his is basically a file share between people who worked on downloading the videos and resources, not a replacement for the streaming service. As far as I am aware the DoE have also failed to answer numerous requests for clarification, both on twitter and via email.
lindylou Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I spotted this yesterday - Teachers TV will relaunch as SchoolsWorld on 11 May and indeed on the Ten Alps site was this, where I assume we can expect the archive to appear from next week. Some of our advisors and consultants use the videos a lot in training courses, so they are very pleased about this. Hope it helps everyone else.
glennda Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 I spotted this yesterday - Teachers TV will relaunch as SchoolsWorld on 11 May and indeed on the Ten Alps site was this, where I assume we can expect the archive to appear from next week. Some of our advisors and consultants use the videos a lot in training courses, so they are very pleased about this. Hope it helps everyone else. Just sent to the people who tend to use this alot! Cheers
lindylou Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Just sent to the people who tend to use this alot! Cheers My pleasure - glad it will cheer up somebody's day!
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