penfold_99 Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 As there is growing awareness of SIF at the school level, its about time someone asked schools what application would they like to see sif enabled. What applications would you like to see SIF enabled? I can then feed back the information to the SIF association. [i posted here as there isn't a open standards forums to post in]
plexer Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I would like to see any application that needs to keep data on studetns/staff up to date to be sif compliant or have a sif plugin such as access control & cashless catering software. At the moment these types of programs will hook directly into the sims etc... db but for non sims schools and yes there are some it's not that easy and sif should be used. Ben
penfold_99 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Posted March 21, 2011 @plexer Have you got the names of the applications you would like see sif enabled?
localzuk Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Active Directory would be the first major one. I believe Softlink Oliver is already using SIF via the GroupCall export application. ParentPay Expo Electro EducationCity.com Mathletics But then for me, I have 2 custom written applications which get info from SIMS.net, but which could be SIFified somehow.
vikpaw Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 I'm planning on going with Oliver SQL over the summer, and also to try out GroupCall's Emerge, so is the exporter basically an agent that could be used for any other app if it were SIFified...?
localzuk Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 I'm planning on going with Oliver SQL over the summer, and also to try out GroupCall's Emerge, so is the exporter basically an agent that could be used for any other app if it were SIFified...? I believe that's the case, yes.
penfold_99 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 I believe Softlink Oliver is already using SIF via the GroupCall export application. Softlink currently use groupcall export to get information from the MIS not SIF.
penfold_99 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 GroupCall's Emerge, so is the exporter basically an agent that could be used for any other app if it were SIFified...? Emerage uses the exporter agent to get data to the cloud not sif.
localzuk Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Softlink currently use groupcall export to get information from the MIS not SIF. Ah, ok. GroupCall have since released GroupCall Xporter SIF which, well, is pretty self explanatory. So I would imagine a future move to SIF for more things.
penfold_99 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Posted May 23, 2011 in simple terms GroupCall Xporter SIF is GroupCall Xporter with a SIF job added.
superfletch Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Does anyone know if Groupcall Xporter / Xporter SIF is CoCo compliant?
vikpaw Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Groupcall basically just runs pre-defined reports in SIMS, i think it's the exporter that we're running for Emerge. My issue is that the reports are limited and don't always work very well. Softlink recently asked me to install Exporter again so they could sync SIMS with Oliver, but again it was basically going to use just use reports, and they wanted a SIMS user with extremely high privileges. I thought SIF would be like an interface, so if Capita was SIF enabled / compliant, it would generate whatever data we wanted in a common format, and then Oliver would be able to receive that. Right? At the moment Softlink, just wants a CSV with the data which can be imported on a schedule. I've just done that manually, and saved myself a load of cash and install fees. I need to do a more complex Excel report that manipulates some fields then makes the CSV, but that's not too bad. Anyhow, i'd be interested to know how SIF can help me here and what the difference is. In theory to answer the original question, anything that stores data / needs to interface would benefit from being SIF enabled. We currently need to sych, AD/MIS/Library/ID card system/Sharepoint/Moodle/VLE . Usually it's the MIS which is the main source.
GrumbleDook Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Does anyone know if Groupcall Xporter / Xporter SIF is CoCo compliant? IIRC (and @penfold_99 will correct me) for CoCo it also has to take into account how the traffic travels across the network, remember that each network can have a different CoCo. To some extent you need to check with your network provider and see what restrictions / criteria that set for what can be transported across the network and where too. 1
glennda Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Just a quick question - Groupcall Xporter is essentially Command Reporter with a management console? Running a Sims report as the user specified?
superfletch Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Just a quick question - Groupcall Xporter is essentially Command Reporter with a management console? Running a Sims report as the user specified? I thought not, I understood it actually took the data out of SQL without any need for a report, but this thread has made me doubt that altogether. I also thought Xporter was a SIF product regardless, I didn't realise there was an "Xporter SIF" version too.
glennda Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I thought not, I understood it actually took the data out of SQL without any need for a report, but this thread has made me doubt that altogether. I also thought Xporter was a SIF product regardless, I didn't realise there was an "Xporter SIF" version too. No it may be different with the Sif add on but Exporter uses reports in Sims
vikpaw Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Just a quick question - Groupcall Xporter is essentially Command Reporter with a management console? Running a Sims report as the user specified? Apologies if i've confused things. i have Emerge and i think it's the Xporter that is running to do the data sync. This is reliant on a load of reports in SIMS. They are tagged in a category so you can find them. I've looked at them and spotted improvements that could be made, which has now led to changes to the app itself and how it shows data.
penfold_99 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 Groupcall basically just runs pre-defined reports in SIMS, i think it's the exporter that we're running for Emerge. My issue is that the reports are limited and don't always work very well. Softlink recently asked me to install Exporter again so they could sync SIMS with Oliver, but again it was basically going to use just use reports, and they wanted a SIMS user with extremely high privileges. I thought SIF would be like an interface, so if Capita was SIF enabled / compliant, it would generate whatever data we wanted in a common format, and then Oliver would be able to receive that. Right? At the moment Softlink, just wants a CSV with the data which can be imported on a schedule. I've just done that manually, and saved myself a load of cash and install fees. I need to do a more complex Excel report that manipulates some fields then makes the CSV, but that's not too bad. Anyhow, i'd be interested to know how SIF can help me here and what the difference is. In theory to answer the original question, anything that stores data / needs to interface would benefit from being SIF enabled. We currently need to sych, AD/MIS/Library/ID card system/Sharepoint/Moodle/VLE . Usually it's the MIS which is the main source. A SIF agent currently exists for Softlink Oliver 5. It can currently create/update records in Oliver and will match exiting users if they have use the any unique it that you have is in the MIS ie UPN or admission number. SIF agent also exist for AD and Moodle. And external siytem with a decent api is straight forward to sif enable.
GREED Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I think I have talked about SIF more in the last 3 days than the rest of my professional life put together! My comment on SIF in the other thread is just as valid here too... well most of it http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/92427-development-open-source-parent-gateway-3.html#post807266
glennda Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Apologies if i've confused things. i have Emerge and i think it's the Xporter that is running to do the data sync. This is reliant on a load of reports in SIMS. They are tagged in a category so you can find them. I've looked at them and spotted improvements that could be made, which has now led to changes to the app itself and how it shows data. It is the xporter which does the data sync (I've got emerge too) - but it still uses normal reports based inside Sims.net the write back is different. The Reports are just in Sims and start with GCX_Emerge or GCX_Biostore depending on the application the extraction is for.
vikpaw Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 So do i need SIF, i'm thinking i do. Do i have to pay for it? Or should the suppliers offer it?
penfold_99 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Posted March 25, 2012 So do i need SIF, i'm thinking i do. Do i have to pay for it? Or should the suppliers offer it? Schools should be asking there supplier to support SIF. There is a cost involved whether connecting to a MIS directly or by SIF. SIF is cheaper to suppliers by reducing the number of APIs they need to support and better for schools by allowing better choice and avoiding vendor lock in. SIF support should be bundled with the application not offered as an add on. 1
CyberNerd Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 SIF support should be bundled with the application not offered as an add on. Given that one of the goals of SIF is to allow interoperability of data between systems, it could be monopolistic for a company offer SIF as a (paid for add-on) thereby ensuring vendor lock-in. Is this the current state of affairs? I figured api's would be free in 2012?
vikpaw Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 @CyberNerd - that's what i was thinking - imagine it's slow uptake, because saying you support it is good, actually supporting it - not good for business. I wouldn't mind if they just added it into the cost of what you buy, so long as they all did it. Really, it should be enforced, certainly for education / government funded areas (what does that mean these days ??). I wonder if it's part of the recent framework released http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/76154-something-keep-eye-dfe.html#post807968 Surely a massive factor in changing a MIS/VLE will be the transfer of data and associated cost. It would be silly if the best value is obliterated by cost to move. I think mostly the receiving company bears the onus of moving data, but how much do they say they can move. The criteria for companies being on that list should have been contingent on SIF compliance and availability. @penfold_99 do you know if SIF was in the loop?
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