[sims] Database - where is it?

[quietriot1983]

Hi,

 

I think I need some SIMS help. We have one machine in the office running SIMS, and I assumed that the database and all the information was held on the networked S: drive. However, I backed that up and then disabled the connection, and was still able to log in and access pupil data etc.

 

So basically, I think my question is where does the SIMS data come from, can I find this out? And if it is coming from somewhere that will disappear when RM switch us off, how do I go about chianging its location to somewhere local?

[localzuk]

The SIMS database is an MSSQL database running on the server where the S: drive is hosted.

 

You really should speak to your SIMS support people to talk about migrations and the like, as you don't want it to go awry.

[siuko]

Check for your connect.ini

 

Our's is located on the S drive - s:\sims\connect.ini

 

Mine states

 

ServerName=hal\sims2008

DatabaseName=sims

 

Which shows the database server and the SQL instance name

[edutech4schools]

The data is held in sql probably on the c or d drive on the server not normally the s drive.

[synaesthesia]

The typical Capita setup is that S: is mapped on all clients machines, which points to what is typically D:(insert sims installation directory here) on the admin server.

You can have SIMS on single stations - perhaps S: is just a plain file storage for you and your MSSQL server in this instance is just on that single workstation.

 

On a network server, it would usually be d:\admin data\sims for SIMS itself but the data will be d:\program files\mssql (or similar)

On a workstation it'd be c:\program files\mssql for the SQL data.

[Hecate]

The actual database you are looking for is the SIMS.mdf file and is found somewhere like drive\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL10.SIMS2008\MSSQL\DATA. However unless you are really sure what you are doing get Capita to help you move it. It's very easy to miss something and lose connectivity to your data

[vikpaw]

The fact you can log in without your S drive connected means your connect.ini must be a local one, so i'm assuming this is your only SIMS machine.

 

As others have said, the database file itself is on the machine running SQL, most likely the machine you are are using to access.

Search for the connect.ini file to be sure, and also check for the Microsoft SQL Server folder.

 

This 'server' computer should have quite recently been upgraded to the latest SQL version which is 2008. Perhaps you can remember where the work was done.

 

I think you need to speak to who ever is maintaining the network and the backups (most important). Are backups being done, and where are they?

So long as you have those, then it doesn't matter what RM do, although it would be nice to be shown some continuity information and will save some time and effort.

 

In addition to the database backups, you should also have a backup of the S: share as well as the Document Storage folder which is usually on the C drive of the database server.

 

If in doubt, call Capita / Tech Support.

[quietriot1983]

Yes that is our only SIMS machine. Off-site backups are being done, but again, when we get switched off these will disappear and I will take over the backing up of the system. What I'm most worried about right now is if we would lose all data when we get switched off. But you seem to have quelled that fear, so thanks!

[CAM]

Start here: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/71629-sims-backup.html

 

Has some warnings and resources for backing up in it.

[vikpaw]

When you say disappear, i take it you mean the system that does the backup will go, but you will have access to the off-site location, or will retrieve all your data prior to disappearance.

 

I'm not really sure what service RM are doing for you, but i would get access to the backups, and follow some of the threads on how to setup a test sims installation. Either physical on a desktop or even virtualise it. You can test your backup works, and also play with the backing up routines yourself to put your mind at ease. The thread CAM linked to is really useful for this.

 

Make sure you're happy with it all before your contract with RM ends, as the MIS data is the most valuable in the school.

[Jawloms]

SIMS .net works as a service over the network and does not rely on the S drive being mapped, so long as the connect.ini file in C:\Program Files\SIMS\SIMS .net contains the name of the server rather than "redirect=S:\SIMS".

[vikpaw]

SIMS .net works as a service over the network and does not rely on the S drive being mapped, so long as the connect.ini file in C:\Program Files\SIMS\SIMS .net contains the name of the server rather than "redirect=S:\SIMS".

 

That's what i meant by saying it was a local connect.ini, i.e. it's not redirected to a shared network connect.ini

[CAM]

This is the connect.ini for my Green Abbey install:

 

ServerName=TECHPC\SIMS2005
DatabaseName=SIMS_ga
DatabaseMode=Online

 

It's part of a larger 18 line (!) file to access a live and local database, this is the bit for the local database modified slightly.

 

TECHPC is my computer's name, basically where the Green Abbey SIMS server is located. SIMS2005 is the name of the MS SQL Service. They combine to form TECHPC\SIMS2005 (Yes I am running it on SQL 2005 Express! ). This might also be called localhost\SIMS_2005.

 

SIMS_ga is the name of the database SIMS_ga.ldf and SIMS_ga.mdf files in the Program Files tree for SQL Server. Use dbAttach to back these up (see the manual linked in that other thread).

 

I don't know what DatabaseMode does but it didn't work without it. That may be to do with having one SIMS client for multiple database connections.

[quietriot1983]

When you say disappear, i take it you mean the system that does the backup will go, but you will have access to the off-site location, or will retrieve all your data prior to disappearance.

 

The off-site backups will go, and we will no longer have access to them. This current system was implemented before my time, so it doesn't help that the secretary has been unable to run a local backup, as we're unable to run executables from a secure backup drive (external).

 

I want to do some form of backup before RM's services comes in (and therefore unplugs us from the matrix!), just incase it all goes tits up.

 

I've printed that pdf file from the linked thread, so I'll try and get an hour or two with the secretary's machine and see if I can make head or tail of it.

 

As you can tell, I don't know the first thing about SIMS.

[Hecate]

As CAM says you can use dbattach (found in - on my system- drive\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL10.SIMS2008\MSSQL\binn) can be used to make a local back up of the data which saves in the drive\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL10.SIMS2008\MSSQL\backup. Obviously your path might differ slightly and you will need the SQL sa password. I think you really need to talk to whoever does your SIMS support as your MIS data is critical and by your own admission you know very little about SIMS

[vikpaw]

Run system manager from SIMS now, and choose the backup option. This should save it locally, but i think there is an option to change path.

Do this NOW!

 

Focus | System

[you need to have system manager rights, oh how i hope you have these.]

 

Close the pop up window.

Click on Tools | Backup Path

Enter something local, or just record what is has as it should be on the local drive, and you can browse there later to extract the file.

Click on Tools | Create Backup.

 

You can do this now even with people logged in. You need to make sure you have at least one file you have access to. Zip it up with a password, put it on an encrypted drive and take it home with you tonight.

 

Also, talk to RM as they can't remove your access to your backups, they have to give them to you as it's your data, or destroy it, but that's not legal as you need to keep it.

[quietriot1983]

It's no RM yet, it's Salford authority, I already burnt our bridges with them as they wouldn't set up simple email forwarding for us (long story).

 

I will try that backup method as soon as the secretary gets up for a brew!

[quietriot1983]

OK, it seems that everything was held locally. So I've backed up C:\program files\SIMS and all its contents, and bundled the drive into a safe.

[localzuk]

OK, it seems that everything was held locally. So I've backed up C:\program files\SIMS and all its contents, and bundled the drive into a safe.

 

THe data is not stored in the c:\program files\SIMS directory. It is stored in the MSSQL directory structure. Also, the simsarea share will likely not be there either - it will be another directory.

[edutech4schools]

If you are sure the full sims and sql are on the client computer you could do a vmware capture to get a full working version of that computer you can then run from any machine if needed. Vmware capture is free.

[quietriot1983]

I meant to say that I did it that way because the Focus > System option is not there. And if I did it through dbattach, the credentials were not correct :/

Where might I find the SQL directory structure?

[Hecate]

Look for something like program files\microsoft sql server\MSSQL.??\MSSQL\Data. The database file should be SIMS.mdf and there will also be the log file SIMS.ldf. However if you just back up these files and try to restore from them later you may have trouble logging back into SIMS as the user password data is saved elsewhere (I think in the master database but I'm not absolutely sure) If you back up and restore using dbattach the user credentials are saved and restored as well. If you can't find focus system it would appear you don't have administrator permissions and if you don't have the sa password for the sql database you are storing up all sorts of problems. It is possible to reset the sa password but you really need to know what you are doing. If you can't ask your Local authority for support can you find someone at a nearby school who has SIMS experience?

[GREED]

I think everyone here has iterated to the correct course of action. My 2 pence here is just to mention on that last point from OP: You will not be able to copy and manipulate the core database files (mdf/ldf) while SQL is on and active. Not that copying the database etc from there gets you far, but just as a warning. dbAttach is the way.

[vikpaw]

stpauls' - someone at your school must have system manager rights, or there must be someone that creates new users when they join. Who is this person? They have the ability to do this backup, and also to grant you those rights. Try and get that sorted. Hopefully they aren't offsite support, but even if they are, someone on site has the right for this level of permissions.

 

If you get really desperate, i should have somewhere are really old .exe file that will backup sims, but haven't used it for a while, it was from my old LA, it just replicates the system manager backup.

 

To get around the problem GREED mentioned you can just stop the SQL services on that machine. Obviously warn any users sims will be down, though i suspect that machine is the only user...

 

You need to copy the full C:\program files\ folder if you don't want to go hunting, though again, services will need to be switched off for you to be able to take the database file.

 

You also need the docstorage and sims share, as i mentioned before, both in different locations.

 

If you're really desperate for help, i'm sure someone will be willing to speak to you on the phone and talk you through it. I'd offer, but i'm only in synch 40% of the time and the phone bill will be more than Capita would charge to come out and do it for you!

Edited March 19, 2011 by vikpaw
major typos

[NorthernSands]

If it'll help I do have a script that will reset the SA password. The SA username and password can then be used with DBAttach to correctly detach the DB (or just back it up).

 

Also, a word of caution: I've had schools backup the SIMS DB by just stopping the services then backing-up the raw files; .mdf and .ldf. At more than one school this failed when a restore was needed and Capita (with a healthy charge) had to fix it. As GREED said; "DBAttach is the way".

 

@stpaulscrompton, you haven't mentioned FMS. Do you use this? If so, it has it's own DB and it's own version of DBAttach.

 

One final thing. @stpaulscrompton I do know someone who works with schools in the Manchester area. I've worked with him in the past and this kind of thing is his bread'n'butter. Drop me a PM and I can send you his details. He would almost certainly be able to sort you out.