Unfriendly Article vents at Edugeek and its members

[SYNACK]

As is his tradition spannerman seems to be taking another swing at Edugeek and its members:

Is Microsoft planning to upgrade ICT in our schools for free? - Spannerman's Edublog

 

We now know that to make matters worse we face four years of spending cuts which do not bode well for school ICT ... but even so does anyone really believe that in 2016 we will still be using Windows XP as the OS in the majority of schools?

 

If you do (i.e. you are a member of Edugeek) consider that by as early as the end of 2011, 3D displays will be as commonplace as gesture-driven interfaces, HTML5, or Silverlight will be in place and to top it all everyone, students included, will carry i-Phones or Androids and live and breathe ‘apps’.

 

I resent that implication as I do many of his implications, yes there are members avidly holding on to XP but there are many that have gone Windows Vista and 7. We may not all be avid app dwellers or google addicts as suggested in the article but progress from XP has been made in many places.

 

I wonder loudly how the author managed to get a post writing for a known publication no matter how questionable. Perhaps his controversial views and outright ignorance regarding certain matters appeals to their advertising department.

Edited February 19, 2011 by SYNACK

[RabbieBurns]

is that a good enough reference to the site for Wikipedia do you reckon?

[SYNACK]

is that a good enough reference to the site for Wikipedia do you reckon?

 

That was actually how I found it, second page of a google search for edugeek, I found another article (http://www.l4l.co.uk/?p=35) but saw this one (as in OP) and marveled at the misguided consumer driven nonsence of it.

 

Like schools are so different from everything else in the world and the idea that consumer grade gear will stand up to that punnishment as well as corporate gear would. Its the same bad decisions and sence of overimportance that has lead schools down expencive deadend paths before and is now helpfully being promoted by a known publication (credibility not included).

Edited February 19, 2011 by SYNACK

[localzuk]

I'm one for pushing forward with change (I would love to move to Windows 7, have looked at using Linux, etc...), but not just because change is happening elsewhere. What educational benefits come from the change? Is the change actually possible in a school? Can the school introduce new things whilst also making sure it is reliable, secure, manageable and affordable?

 

This article screams 'I am a teacher, and therefore I am right' to me. Completely fails to recognise the reality of how school IT works.

 

Does John Spencer really think that introducing new technologies into schools is easy? It isn't just a case of buying and setting things up, but its also a case of getting teachers to actually see the advantages of the new tech and then getting them to want to use it. Just look at VLE's! They are a great idea, if the resources required to make them work are invested into them (and that doesn't mean paying for licenses, that means teachers putting time and effort in to them), yet if you look at most primary schools and a good number of secondary schools you will find they simply can't see their value.

 

He is focussing on the existence of these technologies, rather than the VALUE of these technologies. How does a 3D display differ in any way to a normal display for the purposes of education? Or gesture controlled interfaces compared to normal interactive displays for a classroom? What difference does HTML5's existence make in a world where most educational sites and software utilise Flash or some other form of Adobe technology? Why does the fact that kids will have smartphones make any difference to how they will be taught? It isn't like the massive problems with these devices in schools suddenly are going to disappear?

 

So, maybe he'd like to address some of these issues?

Edited February 19, 2011 by localzuk

[Ric_]

I'm not sure who John Spencer is (somebody that has taught IT for the last 30 years apparently) but he must have had bad dealings with an EduGeek member at some point. It is clear that he doesn't read EduGeek or he would know that EduGeek members were the first in the world to deploy Windows 7 and Office 2010 across whole sites and we lead the way in discussions regarding virtualisation and other technologies.

 

We'll take it with a pinch of salt and have a laugh about it with the guys at Microsoft next week

[CyberNerd]

I can't really disagree with the article, apart from the edugeek bashing.

It does make sense, Microsoft are the archetypal ‘catch up corporation’ and schools (teachers) are the archetypal ‘catch up’ users.

 

There are not many schools that are encouraging students to bring in their iphones, blackberries, androids, laptops and netbooks and use them in lessons, because most schools don't have the infrastructure for it. Most IT managers (on edugeek) really are focussed on their AD environments, restricting what users can do. Very few people are looking to the future with respect to mobile computing, clouds and platform independence.

[SYNACK]

I'm not sure who John Spencer is (somebody that has taught IT for the last 30 years apparently) but he must have had bad dealings with an EduGeek member at some point.

 

This guy View Profile: spannerman2 - EduGeek.net who has had quite heated debates along simmilar unthought out lines here before.

[localzuk]

I can't really disagree with the article, apart from the edugeek bashing.

It does make sense, Microsoft are the archetypal ‘catch up corporation’ and schools (teachers) are the archetypal ‘catch up’ users.

 

There are not many schools that are encouraging students to bring in their iphones, blackberries, androids, laptops and netbooks and use them in lessons, because most schools don't have the infrastructure for it. Most IT managers (on edugeek) really are focussed on their AD environments, restricting what users can do. Very few people are looking to the future with respect to mobile computing, clouds and platform independence.

 

I'd argue that it is not schools' jobs to do that. We teach skills needed to operate in today's environment. Gimmicky technologies such as those mentioned by Spencer do not form a part of life which needs teaching. Also, any school that encourages students to bring in iphones etc... is asking for trouble from both a legal and a child protection point of view.

[CyberNerd]

I'd argue that it is not schools' jobs to do that. We teach skills needed to operate in today's environment. Gimmicky technologies such as those mentioned by Spencer do not form a part of life which needs teaching. Also, any school that encourages students to bring in iphones etc... is asking for trouble from both a legal and a child protection point of view.

 

by the time students get into a working environment they will be using the 'gimmicky' technology. They are life skills that need to be taught, surely you must recognise that. Our school is basing it's entire IT strategy on the premise that what can be done in school using schools IT facilities can also be done on students home equipment, in school or out of it. I'm certain that adopting a university type system, where students generally have their own devices, is critical to embedding technology into teaching and learning.

 

disclaimer. I am not a teacher

[localzuk]

by the time students get into a working environment they will be using the 'gimmicky' technology.

 

No, they won't! Most businesses are slower than schools to accept new technologies. And the point is, gimmicky technology has a short life. 3D screens seem to be one of those technologies. How many people really want or need them?

 

They are life skills that need to be taught, surely you must recognise that. Our school is basing it's entire IT strategy on the premise that what can be done in school using schools IT facilities can also be done on students home equipment, in school or out of it. I'm certain that adopting a university type system, where students generally have their own devices, is critical to embedding technology into teaching and learning.

 

disclaimer. I am not a teacher

 

Allowing students to have their own devices is a disaster waiting to happen. Thefts, breakages, insurance issues, and support are all issues that would need sorting out. We don't allow gadgets in school here at the moment, to prevent all of those issues, yet we currently still deal with with a few thefts and breakages each year where the school ends up being blamed! Can you imagine what it'd be like when they were allowed them? Universities work ok because people are 18+ and accept responsibility for their belongings and behaviour. In a school it is the school's responsibility.

 

What about phones? Someone goes and uses theirs for 'happy slapping', or filming a teacher and sticks it on youtube. What protections could the school put in place there?

 

No, it isn't schools place to do these things. We teach skills - this is how you use computers, this is how you use the internet safely etc... We don't need to teach kids how to use phones.

[CyberNerd]

I guess it comes down to how forward thinking the school is, the policies in place, the staff and the general demographic of the students.

 

Just remember phones ARE computers My current phone is a higher spec than I ever used at university. In a couple of years they will be the handmedowns of our yr 7. IMO it is critical that life skills such as safe internet use, research, writing documents etc is done using this technology

[sted]

as to 3d if its anything like current ciema tech what about those of us like me who the main effect is a splitting headache?

 

gesture sensative interfaces yes cool but why? what can you actually do with a touch screen you cant with a mouse that costs a fraction as much.

 

a lot of school software is poorly written and old so wont necessarily run on win7

 

html5/silverlight oh dear i will have to make sure pcs have a n other plugin and ie8+ installed im sure i can cope and most already do probably

 

apps on own kit great how is anyone supposed to manage that what do you do take 3gs devices in every Tuesday to load apps on them then how do you manage licensing or expect kids to pay for the apps? and the wifi kit needed to do this securely is expensive stuff where is the money for the infrastructure coming from

 

wouldnt a snartboard be a surface driven device anyway? infact you could argue a laptop trackpad is as its a surface that drives a device

[jamesb]

HTML5 commonplace by the end of this year?

 

But they're not even putting it up as a final spec until 2014. Of course, I suppose it'd be beyond the skills of the author to do any actual research.

 

They are life skills that need to be taught, surely you must recognise that.

 

Actually I don't. General usage of input devices, and understanding the principles needed to learn a new interface, those are life skills that need to be taught.

 

Teaching a touchscreen distinct from a 3D display distinct from a mouse, and so forth, is not the way to do that.

 

In terms of life skills, knowing how to best utilise multiple monitors is far, far more useful than having learned on a 3D interface display that'll never appear outside the classroom or for entertainment at home (or for the big boss of course, but that still falls under entertainment). No understanding of how the technology is actually used in practice comes across in that article at all.

 

From the article: Thus by 2013 personal and business IT will have transformed utterly with Apps as common on desktops and notebooks as they are now on phones.

 

I just found this line hysterically funny. Do you think he's even aware that apps are actually software applications and are in no way, shape or form a new idea?

 

On the other hand, he does make one good point - the potential of the Nokia/Microsoft deal is great, and I'm hoping they live up to it.

[SYNACK]

Yea, using some stuff like varied phones makes stuff a bunch more complicated andyouare in danger of loosing the lesson in the idealism. Its not like most of the phones are that much different in usage than a pc, buttons to click, things to scroll, text to select, copy, paste. What is the addiction of teaching it on a platform that is the current fad. Sure it will make the students pay more attention - for about ten miuntes before the novelty wears off.

 

All of this means very limited benifit for a lot of extra risk, whats the natural conclusion, the one smartphone per child per year program?

[jamesb]

as to 3d if its anything like current ciema tech what about those of us like me who the main effect is a splitting headache?

 

gesture sensative interfaces yes cool but why? what can you actually do with a touch screen you cant with a mouse that costs a fraction as much.

 

Quite a bit, it's why I got a touchscreen laptop rather than a normal. Most of the time I don't use it, but when I'm doing any design-type work or building diagrams it's indispensable.

[localzuk]

Lets look at one of the UK's major industries - banking. Many banks only changed to Windows XP in the last 3 years.

 

Or look at the small businesses in town - go into an estate agents here, and guess what is running on their machines? Some run XP, some run Windows 2000.

 

How about cash machines? Some are still running Windows 98! Some are running XP embedded.

 

Face it, businesses are very rarely up to date.

[tech_guy]

This guy View Profile: spannerman2 - EduGeek.net who has had quite heated debates along simmilar unthought out lines here before.

 

Oh dear he hasn't made any friends yet......

 

[CyberNerd]

 

 

 

Actually I don't. General usage of input devices, and understanding the principles needed to learn a new interface, those are life skills that need to be taught.

 

THats sort of what I was talking about - students should be using a range of tech - Androids, iphones, Windows. moving to an infrastructure that supports a wide variety of devices can only be a good thing.

[ZeroHour]

Just remember phones ARE computers My current phone is a higher spec than I ever used at university. In a couple of years they will be the handmedowns of our yr 7. IMO it is critical that life skills such as safe internet use, research, writing documents etc is done using this technology

 

You current phone is vastly inferior to a current computer or the computer you used at uni, its a phone..... Who cares if the processors were 400mhz a few years ago, saying its as powerful as that is pointless as even though it may have similar performance its still not as fully equipped as a current computer.

[CyberNerd]

You current phone is vastly inferior to a current computer or the computer you used at uni, its a phone..... Who cares if the processors were 400mhz a few years ago, saying its as powerful as that is pointless as even though it may have similar performance its still not as fully equipped as a current computer.

 

my phone has a root shell.... what can't it do that my computer of ten years ago could do?????

granted. it doesn't have a cd player.

[localzuk]

my phone has a root shell.... what can't it do that my computer of ten years ago could do?????

granted. it doesn't have a cd player.

 

Graphical design work, proper video editing, 3d design, etc...

[CyberNerd]

Graphical design work, proper video editing, 3d design, etc...

 

I don't think my old uni machine could do that either. it browsed the web and created documents...

 

btw- Honeycombe does have a video editing app, there are plenty of picture editors around too, which some of our students upload the results directly to their picasa accounts

[localzuk]

I don't think my old uni machine could do that either. it browsed the web and created documents...

 

btw- Honeycombe does have a video editing app, there are plenty of picture editors around too, which some of our students upload the results directly to their picasa accounts

 

Mine could. I was playing in Bryce 3D on my home machine 10 years ago. I was using an imac 11 years ago with imovie. The apps for video editing on phones are no-where near as advanced.

 

The same can be said of photo editing. The tools available on phones are minimal at best.

Edited February 19, 2011 by localzuk
fix year when I got an imac

[CyberNerd]

Mine could. I was playing in Bryce 3D on my home machine 10 years ago. I was using an imac 7 years ago with imovie. The apps for video editing on phones are no-where near as advanced.

 

The same can be said of photo editing. The tools available on phones are minimal at best.

 

thinking about it, it was nearer 1997. it wouldn't even play a movie. but anyway the point that I was trying to make is that I don't fundamentally disagree with the article. The end goal (for our school) is to embed ICT into the curriculum, and using a range of different methods is better than a one size fits all approach.

 

My goal (as defined by SLT) is to create a safe infrastructure that supports a wide range of devices and application- where the students may have admin access to their own equipment. It's entirely do-able. granted not for all schools, but it is certainly an innovative way of looking at technology, removing some of the traditional barriers. I think we, as technicians, need to look outside of hte box occasionally.

[CAM]

Is it me or does that article gradually descend into rambling? MS paying for things, huh? I don't get what he is trying to say beyond a few points about moving from Office to Google Apps (which funnily enough would be perfect for his Open Source company if it became standard...)

 

There are also 3 reasons why we still run XP:

 

1) Money is tight. We don't live in a pre-budget cut happy fairy land any more.

2) Still testing it on the teachers anyway which is throwing up it's own bugs.

3) SIMS has only recently caught up with Windows 7 and soon Office 2010. That will see more people upgrading in the upcoming Summer upgrades season.