MK-2 Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I mentioned a while back that some of the staff here had done something for comic relief to raise money this year. Basically it will include a DVD for sale which has on it a Thin Lizzy song. The problem is, we don't have the copyright or permission to use it. Are there any ways of charity fundraising being exempt from this? All money raised from selling the DVDs will go to comic relief, there will be no profit at all, but I'm aware that unless we have permission from the band/agent/etc we can't legally use it. Wondered if something like comic relief was a caveat to this, and that things done for fundraising were seen as such, and not profit??
sonofsanta Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 This file lists what licences do what - check what your LEA provides, as mine does most of these. copyright_licensing_in_schools_jan10.pdf I think the only caveat that charity use earns you (if any) is that you can use one of these cheaper non-commercial licences. Chances of being able to use it completely unlicenced are very slim, unless you get written permission from the rights holders (i.e. record label).
MK-2 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 thanks for that. i've emailed comic relief to see if they can advise on anything they might be able to do. not sure who the label owner is either. everytime i type in thin lizzy all i get are youtube vids and mp3 download links, its impossible to find legitimate info!!
timzim Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 thanks for that. i've emailed comic relief to see if they can advise on anything they might be able to do. not sure who the label owner is either. everytime i type in thin lizzy all i get are youtube vids and mp3 download links, its impossible to find legitimate info!! Wikipedia...
sonofsanta Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Wikipedia the song and it says which label it was released under, e.g. The Boys Are Back in Town - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia was released under Vertigo (says it in the box out on right) which is a label now owned by Universal, so it's them you would need to contact. 1
MK-2 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 cheers, i was just a bit reluctant to trust wikipedia, but i'll blame you if anything happens
sonofsanta Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 cheers, i was just a bit reluctant to trust wikipedia, but i'll blame you if anything happens worst that can happen is they say "that's not our song" and you have to look somewhere else for the info, not the end of the world!
dhicks Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 The problem is, we don't have the copyright or permission to use it. I think the people you need to get hold of are the Performing Rights Society: PRS for Music
MK-2 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Posted February 8, 2011 I think the people you need to get hold of are the Performing Rights Society: PRS for Music does that include if we dont actually sing, we just mime and the audio track is layed over the top?
dhicks Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 does that include if we dont actually sing, we just mime and the audio track is layed over the top? Not a sausage. However, they have a link on their front page for charities where you can request a callback and get someone to explain stuff to you.
CAM Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 PRS chase businesses to make them buy a licence for playing music. It can be anything from over a tonnoy to a radio in the corner of the workshop, they will even call and listen to the background for any hint of music playing.
localzuk Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Ok, you need a PRS and PPL license for playing the music in public, then you need an MCPS license to cover the disc production (details here Limited Manufacture Licence (LM)).
MK-2 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Ok, you need a PRS and PPL license for playing the music in public, then you need an MCPS license to cover the disc production (details here Limited Manufacture Licence (LM)). so basically it wont happen. im guessing these licences cost money and take time, and this is for a one time event to raise money. so much for trying to raise cash **edit** just had a look and it says non registered charities showing kids work are included. would that include us as we are a registered charity and it wont be kids or work, it will be raising money Edited February 9, 2011 by MK-2
SteveBentley Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I would have said that you might have been better trying to contact somebody directly involved via Twitter, in this day and age. But with the recent news re Gary Moore I suspect it's not going to on anybody's priority list to help with this at the moment. There may be one get-out -if you're doing a parody of the song (specifically of the song, not using the song to parody something else) you might be able to claim fair dealing. IANAL etc etc.
localzuk Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 so basically it wont happen. im guessing these licences cost money and take time, and this is for a one time event to raise money. so much for trying to raise cash **edit** just had a look and it says non registered charities showing kids work are included. would that include us as we are a registered charity and it wont be kids or work, it will be raising money The page has "Recordings of community projects music or otherwise, funded by non-business entities and supported entirely by voluntary contributions and voluntary workers, which are sold or given away to members of the community, friends and family." for charities. So, you would still need the license.
MK-2 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 localzuk: so if we paid the one-off £15 licence that would cover us? or do we need a licence per dvd made? steve: its not really a parody, its us just miming and acting out various joke scenes with that as the track, its not parodying it just using it unfortunately
MK-2 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 ok so 101-250 copies is £70 for MCPS. but it does say underneath it covers MCPS and PPL members music, so how do i know that the track we are using is part of the MCPS or PPL members? also, whats the PPL bit? as it doubles the price if we use the PPL bit too
localzuk Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 ok so 101-250 copies is £70 for MCPS. but it does say underneath it covers MCPS and PPL members music, so how do i know that the track we are using is part of the MCPS or PPL members? also, whats the PPL bit? as it doubles the price if we use the PPL bit too PPL is the license for any 'public performance' of music. So, that includes via concerts, shows, or on DVDs to an audience who isn't the original maker of the DVD. This license covers 'record companies and performers'. You also need a PRS license, which covers the same details but for 'composers and performers'. All in all, its expensive stuff.
MK-2 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 its absolutely ridiculous. to raise money for charity we'd have to spend out more than we might make. i can honestly see why people illegally download and use music, its nothing about protecting the musicians, its about maximising profit.
BatchFile Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 I'd check with your LEA - I think I read somewhere (can't remember where) that they hold certain licences on behalf of their schools???
MK-2 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 I'd check with your LEA - I think I read somewhere (can't remember where) that they hold certain licences on behalf of their schools??? we're an independant school, so doubt the LEA would give us much help
localzuk Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 its absolutely ridiculous. to raise money for charity we'd have to spend out more than we might make. i can honestly see why people illegally download and use music, its nothing about protecting the musicians, its about maximising profit. Copyright law in the UK is out of date and complex. For an ordinary school to run, we need at least 7 copyright licenses, totalling £2k a year. You are right, it is ridiculous. Also, regarding it being for charity, you have to remember that charities are still businesses, as are the record companies. And both are trying to make money.
MK-2 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Copyright law in the UK is out of date and complex. For an ordinary school to run, we need at least 7 copyright licenses, totalling £2k a year. You are right, it is ridiculous. Also, regarding it being for charity, you have to remember that charities are still businesses, as are the record companies. And both are trying to make money. oh yeah i know we all still have to make money. but for a 3min video to raise money for the poor in the world it now looks like it wont go ahead due to these complications. so we've gone from possible raising over a thousand pound to probably getting less than a few hundred. it'd be the difference between children in need being on TV all night raising millions, or just a bloke coming round your house and saying "spare a quid for charity mate". im sure they wouldn't raise millions that way.
localzuk Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Does your school not already have the PPL and PRS licenses? They're pretty much compulsory for schools, so you may not actually have that cost, just the MCPS cost. 1
MK-2 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 Does your school not already have the PPL and PRS licenses? They're pretty much compulsory for schools, so you may not actually have that cost, just the MCPS cost. not a clue, and asking the bursary dept to check what licences we have i may as well just stick my head in an oven!
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