My standard of living falls below the acceptable standard.

[ICT_GUY]

BBC News - Living 'costs at least £14,400' for a single person

 

A single person in the UK needs a gross income of at least £14,400 in 2010 to live to an acceptable standard, a charity says.

 

And a couple with two children need £29,200 for a minimum acceptable standard of living, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation (JRF) said.

 

The figure indicates a growing gap between the national minimum wage and the minimum income standard.

 

The charity claimed this was due to rising inflation for necessities.

 

"This research shows what ordinary members of the public think is needed - not just to survive but to take part in society," said Julia Unwin, chief executive of the JRF.

 

"It provides powerful evidence for the new government to use as it develops policies to deal with poverty."

 

 

SMT Laughed and said what a load of twaddle. I however think I need more money!

[Sirbendy]

hmm. Jem's not working, and SMP has dropped off...I'm on a theoretical £16kish...every month, we have more in the account than out.

 

We have all the usual gadgetry..hmm...plus a car..

 

I disagree. I admit we're as tight as the proverbial, but we manage comfortably with us, 3 cats, 1 guinea pig and a 7 month old. We use non-disposable nappies (doddle), we do one bulk shop a month and plan ahead, we cancelled the TV license as TV is 99% bunk anyway and we have a Wii with iPlayer, we buy things from eBay to get the cheapest possible, most of our furniture was free or charity shop (and is better than 90% of the stuff you can buy cheap in stores)..

 

Admittedly we don't go out pubbing, and all that guff..but I don't feel in the least that we're "below any standards"..

 

We have 5 laptops, 1 desktop, 2 smartphones, ADSL..can't say I want any more!

[localzuk]

hmm. Jem's not working, and SMP has dropped off...I'm on a theoretical £16kish...every month, we have more in the account than out.

 

We have all the usual gadgetry..hmm...plus a car..

 

I disagree. I admit we're as tight as the proverbial, but we manage comfortably with us, 3 cats, 1 guinea pig and a 7 month old. We use non-disposable nappies (doddle), we do one bulk shop a month and plan ahead, we cancelled the TV license as TV is 99% bunk anyway and we have a Wii with iPlayer, we buy things from eBay to get the cheapest possible, most of our furniture was free or charity shop (and is better than 90% of the stuff you can buy cheap in stores)..

 

Admittedly we don't go out pubbing, and all that guff..but I don't feel in the least that we're "below any standards"..

 

We have 5 laptops, 1 desktop, 2 smartphones, ADSL..can't say I want any more!

 

I agree that it is possible to live cheaply. I've regularly had to live off less than a fiver for a week's food - and I'm perfectly healthy and ate a varied diet.

 

However, the more people that do have to live that cheaply, the less 'cheap' stuff there is to go around.

 

The point of this article is not saying that it isn't possible to live cheaply, it is saying that earning less than that will in a good number of cases mean that that person is living in an impoverished way.

 

One thing to say though - living cheaply is very hard work.

[Domino]

we cancelled the TV license as TV is 99% bunk anyway and we have a Wii with iPlayer,

 

Errrr - you'll still need a tv licence then!

[localzuk]

Errrr - you'll still need a tv licence then!

 

Only if he watches live iplayer streams. If he is watching 'old' stuff (ie. stuff available after the original tv air date) then he doesn't.

[CHR1S]

On my wage I pay mortgage, bills, car etc etc and still come out ok.

I could see it being more of an issue in the future if things change but I would just have to downsize the car or something like that.

[plexer]

Errrr - you'll still need a tv licence then!

 

Only to watch stuff being streamed live.

 

Ben

[Rydra]

The point is not just to survive on this minimum, but to live a life. It assumes that you are sociable in some way such as pubbing, a sport/club, or some other social activity, at least 1 weeks holiday, and still having money for such things as birthdays, xmas etc.

 

Does your partner work at all (guessing not with a 7 month old), and do you own, rent or live with others (family/friends)?

 

That's the other part of this; it assumes you live independantly. Someone living at home with parents who own their house outright, and pay them a couple hundred a week towards food/bills can happily plod along at these minimum salaries. But someone with a 35 year mortgage, 2 kids and a wife who's out of work may come to struggle as time goes on.

 

You may be ok for money now, but in 2 years time, with no pay rises on public sector likely to happen, with prices going up by about 3-6% per year (next year will be a harsh one with VAT hike too), can you be sure that you will still be above that standard?

 

I can put away up to £500 a month if I don't go out much or buy anything too gadgety, but when I have to have work done on the house, or the car, or pay for a holiday, or replace a dead item of equipment in the house (PC, TV, microwave), those savings go very rapidly. I also have to save up for car insurance, quarterly electricity bills...

 

So you may be in the green each month, but at the end of the year, how much have you still got? How much of what you saved has gone back out again on some other 'bill'?

 

Because in 2+ years time with a 6% rise per year in costs, chances are those savings will begin to diminish.

[jamesb]

Errrr - you'll still need a tv licence then!

 

I went into a small war with the TV licensing people over this - eventually had to get my MP involved. As others have said though, you only need a license if you are watching live television. If you do not watch live television (whether streamed or broadcast) no license is needed.

 

Good thing too as the only thing I watch is Doctor Who and DVDs. TV license is a waste of money unless you use it.

[ICT_GUY]

Errrr - you'll still need a tv licence then!

 

I actually thought you needed a licence for any TV that was capable of receiving TV broadcasts. Then I read up on the licensing website, and you actually can own a TV for games or computer use without a licence!

 

You do not need a TV Licence if you only use your TV to watch videos and DVDs or as a monitor for your games console. You can tell us that you do not need a TV Licence by using our online declaration form. One of our Enforcement Officers may visit you to confirm that you do not need a licence.

[localzuk]

I actually thought you needed a licence for any TV that was capable of receiving TV broadcasts. Then I read up on the licensing website, and you actually can own a TV for games or computer use without a licence!

 

You do not need a TV Licence if you only use your TV to watch videos and DVDs or as a monitor for your games console. You can tell us that you do not need a TV Licence by using our online declaration form. One of our Enforcement Officers may visit you to confirm that you do not need a licence.

 

Indeed. The term 'capable' isn't used in the law regarding this, instead 'set up to' is used IIRC. So, if you have a TV and have it detuned and no aerial plugged in then you're fine.

[jamesb]

I actually thought you needed a licence for any TV that was capable of receiving TV broadcasts. Then I read up on the licensing website, and you actually can own a TV for games or computer use without a licence!

 

You do not need a TV Licence if you only use your TV to watch videos and DVDs or as a monitor for your games console. You can tell us that you do not need a TV Licence by using our online declaration form. One of our Enforcement Officers may visit you to confirm that you do not need a licence.

 

Speaking of which I've been expecting a visit from one of their enforcement officers for the last year, or a letter asking me to reaffirm that I don't need a license (apparently they remove the mark saying that you don't after nine months). So far I've had neither.

 

I'm just wondering if it's got something to do with bringing a MP into it, or if they're just disorganised and have forgotten about me.

[ICT_GUY]

Speaking of which I've been expecting a visit from one of their enforcement officers for the last year, or a letter asking me to reaffirm that I don't need a license (apparently they remove the mark saying that you don't after nine months). So far I've had neither.

 

I'm just wondering if it's got something to do with bringing a MP into it, or if they're just disorganised and have forgotten about me.

 

I find that normally they keep up with the threatening letters for quite awhile. I bought a USB TV tuner a few years back. Although the house has a TV licence in my wife's maiden name they sent numerous threatening letters, quite scary ones at that. They eventually stopped.

[jamesb]

I find that normally they keep up with the threatening letters for quite awhile. I bought a USB TV tuner a few years back. Although the house has a TV licence in my wife's maiden name they sent numerous threatening letters, quite scary ones at that. They eventually stopped.

 

Yep, it was the threatening letters which made me escalate the whole thing. I consulted with a lawyer, but unfortunately the language in the letters is very careful and doesn't fall under libel (even though it comes very, very close to accusing you of breaking the law) or attempting to extract money with menaces (pay us and we'll leave you alone, otherwise we'll harass you).

 

The letters only stopped after the MP for my area got involved - and I ended up with a written apology for the trouble.

[Sirbendy]

She's going back to work in November when Tiddler turns 1, yes. Right now she's on..about £17/month SMP. We rent@550/month. Council tax band A, etc. Bills..£150/quarter for electric (last one), £900 for gas (ouch, 250 year old house, single glazing, minimal insulation.). "Dead" household items..rarely happen. I just rebuilt my tower fan that we needed in the heat, as after 6 years it died. Most things can be fixed, microwaves are cheap (and rarely used if we're honest), etc.

 

Car insurance, not bothered. Tax, ditto. I have more than enough put by to ignore these. If the car goes catastrophically wrong, I have a spare in storage.

 

We go out to see family every weekend, go out for a meal on special occasions, and go out frequently with tiddler to national trust places, as we're members.

 

As to the TV - heh, yes..we've seen some interesting debates there. It's just daft to have one for us - the TV has been on a sum total of maybe 3 days over 7 months..! Radio all the way. Less distracting for the littley as well. Reading and playing are more fun.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Sirbendy

[Sarconia]

The only issues I ever have with TV licensing is my mum ranting on saying that I need one just because I own a TV, I've told her a million times already that I paid for the TV, paid for the games console, paid for the games/DVD's, paid for the electicity and therefore do NOT need to pay to watch broadcasts which I can't even receive. TV licensing is a ridiculous farce, all of the channels it funds are complete and utter crap anyway.

 

Back on topic... living alone and being completely independent is expensive, it's only possible to bulk buy non-perishables and generally buying smaller, individual items are more expensive.

 

It's all about working out where your money goes which brings us to the question... where does it go? I'd say anywhere between 30-50% of it goes on accomodation, be it a mortgage or rental and then bills such as electric, gas and council tax. Another 10-15% most likely goes on food, a further 10-15% on travel costs, about 5-10% on other bills such as internet/mobile phone/gym, yet another 10-15% on either repaying debts or trying to save up and I'd say at least 5% on social events because all work and no play makes us all very dull.

 

So depending on your situation and your outgoings it could be an "all money gone" situation quite quickly. Living cheaply is generally quite hard work as it takes time and effort hunting for good prices, cooking your own meals from scratch is cheaper but once again, it takes time.

[Rydra]

Lucky you, I actually envy a little!

 

I bought all furniture and goods from previous owner for a good price.

 

In 2 years, I've had to replace 2 microwaves, 2 TV's, a kettle, 3 iron's, also now got trouble with my fridge and washing machine, and a sofa and a sofabed in need of replacement, new wardrobes required, i've had the house rewired already, need to have the guttering and facia boards replaced (asbestos sucks), and all my main water piping requires replacing (all the stop tap valves are locked open, and a couple of them leak)

 

So the 2k of savings i've currently got will pay for maybe 1-2 of what I need to fix/replace!

[Sirbendy]

We do a lot of "making meals from scratch", I admit..but that's because I suppose you could class us as "odd" parenting-wise...we do co-sleeping, babywearing, attachment parenting and we've been doing baby-led weaning for the last..3 months now? Basically littley has what we have, in "adult" form..lots of Veg and healthy eating etc.

 

Far healthier than purees and baby-mush, and if we make anything (even cakes) that we plan on letting her have, we make them by hand and try to cut out salt/sugar/iffy tiddler stuff. It's good fun to boot.

[maniac]

I think that figure really does depend on what part of the country you are living in, as I'd be right up s**t creek if I only had £14,440 a year to survive on. That works out around £1000 a month after tax - my mortgage and essential bills come to more than that! My house isn't even very big, Victorian 2 up 2 down end of terrace, but the south east is a damned expensive place to buy a house - 1 bed bedsits can cost over £400 a month to rent, even more in popular places like Canterbury.

[penfold]

The thing that I struggle with is the fact I have never been able to afford to save a significant amount in the first place. At the moment I am trying to save to buy a house with my better half, and the money between the 2 of us is limited. At each point I have thought I am making headway I end up with either large bills to pay or replacing broken goods which quickly eat in to my rather limited savings.

 

Like you Sirbendy, we make almost all of our meals from scratch, but I'll admit that there are the few occasions we go out for socialising and we probably spend somewhere between £500-700 for holidays each year. Although I wouldn't say we struggle each month, we do watch what we spend and any little emergency could result in spending more than we earn in a single month. But what is quite depressing is at the moment I just cant see our situation getting any better. While we can live at the moment, we cant actually save anything so planning for the future is quite difficult.

[Sarconia]

1 bed bedsits can cost over £400 a month to rent, even more in popular places like Canterbury.

 

Don't get me started! London is even worse... the next job I get will hopefully not be down here as you have to earn ridiculous amounts and often it'd be much cheaper to take a smaller salary and live slightly further north. Northamptonshire looks good, lol!

[Sirbendy]

Fridges and washing machines are simple devices...I could heartily recommend the Haynes manual for washing machines etc..and fridges are usually problematic due to the thermostat/motor capacitor/door seals..Don't think I've seen a fridge motor fail so far..

 

Washers are usually down to a failed water solenoid (cheap), split pipe (cheap), blocked pump (PITA), or duff carbon brushes in my experience..I used to replace them on mums hotpoint every few years. She's now got a Hoover one that's blown the programmer ecu...so in her words "I treat it like a man. I tell it what to do and twiddle it's knob to make it do it.". I laughed.

 

I bought our first fridge from a refurb place..a 1970 era English Electric. Worked well for 3 years, went out in a puff of smoke. Not bad for £60. The one now is a Beko, cost me £60 from a friend. The washer we have now is a basic, no frills Indesit. Again, can't fault it.

 

Electrical Appliance Manual (Haynes for Home DIY): Amazon.co.uk: Graham Dixon: Books

The Washing Machine Manual: DIY Plumbing, Fault-finding, Repair and Maintenance: Amazon.co.uk: Graham Dixon: Books

 

always useful. My sofa-bed is a futon..naff all to go wrong there. The sofa cost us £20, 4 years ago. Big squishy red velvetty 2 seater. Bargain! Kettles come from Tesco (£5), as do my £25 miocrowaves.

 

I got a NICE rocking chair/kitchen drop-leaf table/set of chairs/sideboard from my Nans house when we cleared it..nobody wanted them as they're dark wood, and have had 60+ years of family usage, so are hardly pristine..on the other hand, they're Ercol units, and they'll outlast me easily. Some light attention with #0000 wire wool, and a good coat of wax, job done.

[jamesb]

Back on topic... living alone and being completely independent is expensive, it's only possible to bulk buy non-perishables and generally buying smaller, individual items are more expensive.

 

I can second this - until recently I've been living alone. I've now got someone living with me which means that not only do I have more time (housework, cooking and such is now taken care of for me) but my costs have actually gone down without any more money coming in. It's largely because there are now meals cooked from scratch each day, which I just couldn't face doing on my own every day.

[CAM]

If you can't face making meals from scratch the answer is make more then you need! Then you can let it stand until room temperature, put it in a pot and freeze it. When hungry, whip the pot out and put it in the microwave. Let it stand to room temperature first though or you get salmonella.

[localzuk]

If you can't face making meals from scratch the answer is make more then you need! Then you can let it stand until room temperature, put it in a pot and freeze it. When hungry, whip the pot out and put it in the microwave. Let it stand to room temperature first though or you get salmonella.

 

If you have a freezer...