Roaming Profiles going screwy

[solitaire89]

Wondering if anyone could help me, please! I have a problem with roaming profiles going, well, for want of a better word screwy!

 

We're using server 2003, and xp pro workstations. The profile should redirect the My Docs to the user's home folder, hold anything on the desktop (which should be nothing, but occasionally there's some odds and sods), and contains the e-mail setup (but not the actuall pst). In a nut shell what happens is this:

 

A user tries to log in. The log in takes ages (we're talking 5 mins or so), and when it finally gets there, the roaming profile appears not to have been applied, i.e. the my docs reverts to a local temp file, e-mail fails, and interestingly, the appearance scheme reverts to grey windows classic, with the standard blank desktop (we don't stop kids from changing their desktops or the appearance - not my decision).

 

It's easily resolved by just recreating the profile folder on the server, redirecting the my docs and setting up the e-mail again, but at the moment we've got about 8/10 or so going each day, and all I seem to be doing at the moment is recreating them!

 

There is no link with a specific machine, or with an OU. It is entirely random. Whilst I can accept the odd one to go on occasion as it's being passed back and forth so often, there are just too many going for there not to be something else lurking. When I first took on this job, we had the exact same issue, and after numerous calls to our then support company (they tried to say is was user error - on my part), they eventually came out and agreed that there was an issue, and fixed it. I didn't know anything at all then (I know precious little now ), and they explained it to me in some very cag-handed way... In that "there is a database where the roaming profile is mixed with the machine profile, and it needed to be recreated as it had gone corrupt, and that was causing the output to be off"... Means nothing to me now either. I've tried looking on the call sheet to see what they did, but it's about as helpful. I'm sure someone will know exactly what they were talking about, but whatever it was that they did, I need to do again!

 

Can anyone help me please?!

[elsiegee40]

I can't help with the "database"... never had things go that screwy sorry.

 

However, you do need to clear any remnants of profiles off all your local workstations. It does help. delprof.exe can be used to do this (it's well documented on here)

 

It seems to happen here to users who have enormous roaming profiles.

 

JAM Software - TreeSize Free on your server is great for identifying the worst offenders.

 

Local training in emptying recycle bins/ scripts to empty recycle bins / script to delete cookies and a fixed desktop all help.

[BatchFile]

You haven't got cacheing enabled on the profile share have you? That's supposed to cause this kind of trouble...

 

"there is a database where the roaming profile is mixed with the machine profile, and it needed to be recreated as it had gone corrupt, and that was causing the output to be off"

 

That's a bit of registry that's in the profile - no black magic, but, yes it can get corrupted sometimes

Edited February 25, 2010 by BatchFile

[Number6]

Never heard of having to recreate a roaming profiles database before.

 

Do you actually need roaming profiles? Ours caused all sorts of trouble, including long login and logoff times because users were storing huge files on their desktops, etc. We got rid of them all and simply use folder redirection now - no further problems!

 

Anyway, do you have a backup copy of your users profiles? If so it should be relatively simple (if time consuming) to recreate the profiles, making sure that you remove all cached data from the workstations.

 

But, as you say, why are they all going bad on you in the first place? There must be a file, or files that are being passed around that are causing this.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Number6

[solitaire89]

I can't help with the "database"... never had things go that screwy sorry.

 

However, you do need to clear any remnants of profiles off all your local workstations. It does help. delprof.exe can be used to do this (it's well documented on here)

 

It seems to happen here to users who have enormous roaming profiles.

 

JAM Software - TreeSize Free on your server is great for identifying the worst offenders.

 

Local training in emptying recycle bins/ scripts to empty recycle bins / script to delete cookies and a fixed desktop all help.

 

I'm glad you're saying the samething about the "database" - I thought I was missing something really simple when I couldn't find anything about it!!

I do go round periodically and remove the profiles, but I didn't know there was a better way.... Thanks!

As for the size of the profile, it makes no difference in this case (it does when we have the odd one or 2 go, but this is on a completely different scale!).

 

You haven't got cacheing enabled on the profile share have you? That's supposed to cause this kind of trouble...

 

Sorry to sound thick - I'm afraid I would know how/where to check, and I have no one to ask here... But if it IS that, then why has the issue only reared its ugly head again recently? Wouldn't it be doing this all the time??

 

EDIT: Have just had a sqint - we have "files or programs from the share will not be available offline"..., so I guess not.

Edited February 25, 2010 by solitaire89

[solitaire89]

 

 

That's a bit of registry that's in the profile - no black magic, but, yes it can get corrupted sometimes

 

Ahhh... tell me more........ That's ringing something in the back of my head........ But I don't know why...

[solitaire89]

Never heard of having to recreate a roaming profiles database before.

 

Do you actually need roaming profiles? Ours caused all sorts of trouble, including long login and logoff times because users were storing huge files on their desktops, etc. We got rid of them all and simply use folder redirection now - no further problems!

 

Anyway, do you have a backup copy of your users profiles? If so it should be relatively simple (if time consuming) to recreate the profiles, making sure that you remove all cached data from the workstations.

 

But, as you say, why are they all going bad on you in the first place? There must be a file, or files that are being passed around that are causing this.

 

As to do we need them - I'd say no, but other people in this place would disagree... I'm only the technician you see

 

We do have a backup copy, but it's actually quicker to recreate it - that's how little there is there. But obviously 10 or so a day take up time

[Number6]

As to do we need them - I'd say no, but other people in this place would disagree... I'm only the technician you see

 

We do have a backup copy, but it's actually quicker to recreate it - that's how little there is there. But obviously 10 or so a day take up time

 

So am I - but one day the roaming profiles "mysteriously" vanished, to be replaced with folder redirection. Hardly anyone even noticed!

 

Apart from the vastly improved logon times

[powdarrmonkey]

"there is a database where the roaming profile is mixed with the machine profile, and it needed to be recreated as it had gone corrupt, and that was causing the output to be off"...

 

This is all lies (sorry to be blunt, but fobbing customers off is one thing I cannot abide).

[Number6]

If you have the time and patience then this will give you some insight into RP registry structures.

 

User Profile Structure

[powdarrmonkey]

Ahhh... tell me more........ That's ringing something in the back of my head........ But I don't know why...

 

The ntuser.dat and ntuser.log files are the user part ('hive') of the registry, and they're delivered with the profile. They form the HKEY_CURRENT_USER part, whereas system.dat and friends from the workstation's Windows folder form the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE part. If that's what they meant by database, they explained it very poorly indeed; they shouldn't get merged though, that is really screwy.

[busby]

I have the same problem in one school but not on such a large scale. Yes it is totally random we have max 3 a week i just .old the profile and delprof the machines. the docs are redirected anyway.

server is 2003 and totally heading to be used as a door wedge soon. So a hopefully a good upgrade should sort this out and a better way of storing users profiles. tips welcome

[powdarrmonkey]

tips welcome

 

Mandatory profiles solve so many problems.

[busby]

Nice one. so in a nutshell \\Server\ShareName\UserName.man ??.

 

we already use \\Server\ShareName\UserName permissions set as authenticated users, read only

 

Thanks

[powdarrmonkey]

Nice one. so in a nutshell \\Server\ShareName\UserName.man ??.

 

we already use \\Server\ShareName\UserName permissions set as authenticated users, read only

 

Thanks

 

No, change \\server\sharename\username\ntuser.dat to \\server\sharename\username\ntuser.man.

[solitaire89]

So am I - but one day the roaming profiles "mysteriously" vanished, to be replaced with folder redirection. Hardly anyone even noticed!

 

Apart from the vastly improved logon times

 

Haha - I get the feeling that there would be one person who would notice... And that WOULD be dangerous. Maybe when he's off sick......

[busby]

Cool.

 

Thanks

[solitaire89]

This is all lies (sorry to be blunt, but fobbing customers off is one thing I cannot abide).

 

That's the conclusion that I've come to... but like I say, I know precious little, so I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong Now things are different, and I'd be asking for details and to be shown. Except we have no support at all....

[solitaire89]

If you have the time and patience then this will give you some insight into RP registry structures.

 

User Profile Structure

 

Thanks, wil have a look. Time - not at work, patience - definatly, I'm a it tech!

[solitaire89]

The ntuser.dat and ntuser.log files are the user part ('hive') of the registry, and they're delivered with the profile. They form the HKEY_CURRENT_USER part, whereas system.dat and friends from the workstation's Windows folder form the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE part. If that's what they meant by database, they explained it very poorly indeed; they shouldn't get merged though, that is really screwy.

 

I agree - poor explaination if that IS what they were on about. Hmm... If that's on the local machine though, I've run hive cleanups before (for other reasons), and that doesn't fix it. Would it?!

[azrael78]

Have you had a look in the event viewer on affected machines?

 

I ask this as it could be other issues that are causing profile issues, such as group policy getting its knickers in a twist and such.

 

The easiest way to grab event viewer data is to do the following:

 

1) Ensure that the user account and PC definately reproduce the problem.

2) Clear the event log fully

3) Reboot the PC

4) Login as troubled user - load Word or whatever you like, then logout.

5) Export the event log information given.

 

That way - you have a consistent set of information on the problem that you can recall at will on any PC.

 

Give that a go - see what you come up with, as already stated, large roaming profiles can cause horrible issues - so can logging on numerous PCs with roaming profiles (of the same user) and then logging off randomly, which some of ours here are famous for.

 

We'd take them all to mandatory but it's all politics...

 

HTH,

 

Az

[solitaire89]

1) Ensure that the user account and PC definately reproduce the problem.

 

The problem is that once the profile has gone - it's gone. Subsequent logins from the user just give fast log in speeds with a dodge profile. That profile then follows them round from machine to machine until it's fixed...

[azrael78]

So - they login with their normal profile - do things but upon logout their profile is deleted.

Subsequent logins give them some kind of profile that doesn't work (does it have any errors when they login at this point - like can't find the profile etc?) which then roams with them until that profile is fixed?

 

If I'm understanding this right (and I hope I am) - then it's like the profile unload part isn't working properly.

 

I would assume that you have 'delete cached copies of the roaming profile' group policy set.

Do you have any other profile-based policies set?

 

Anything set on the server profile area like file-screens or quotas?

 

What filesize is the ntuser.dat (once it's broken) - 256KB by any chance?

 

Az

[solitaire89]

So - they login with their normal profile - do things but upon logout their profile is deleted.

Subsequent logins give them some kind of profile that doesn't work (does it have any errors when they login at this point - like can't find the profile etc?) which then roams with them until that profile is fixed?

 

Simple answer - I don't know. I don't know if the issue occures at the last log out with the good profile, or the log in immediatley before the screwed one is applied. There are never any error messages at all to suggest that anything is out of the ordinary, not when it first displays the issue, and not when they log back in with the odd profile. And yes, you are correct that it roams with them until fixed.

 

I would assume that you have 'delete cached copies of the roaming profile' group policy set.

Do you have any other profile-based policies set?

 

Yes, 'delete cached copies of the roaming profile' is enabled (Please note, I didn't set this up, so please bear with me, I'm learning all this as we go along... ), and I can't see any others, except "prevent roaming profile changes from propogating to the server" is disabled

 

What filesize is the ntuser.dat (once it's broken) - 256KB by any chance?

 

how did you guess??!!

[Number6]

 

What filesize is the ntuser.dat (once it's broken) - 256KB by any chance?

 

Az

 

This is the old "Symantec" problem isn't it?

 

Anyway, that is simply corrupted ntuser.dat files. Do you have a backed up copy of a known good ntuser hive that you can restore to a "faulty" user to test this theory?

 

I still say "say no to roaming profiles", never had a good experience with them, nor have my colleagues here.