Defining IT Support

[steele_uk]

Seen a few posts lately asking for advice on questions that potential IT support technicians may be asked at interview, and i have been suprised by some of the topics discussed.

 

As operating systems and software have developed, i feel the technician role has moved somewhat.

 

As an NM, if i were seeking a Support technician; turning up promptly to get a laptop and data projector working, in focus and nicely dispalyed, is worth far more to me than quoting the OSI model and its various functions.

 

I don't know if its just me, but some of the suggested questions here don't seem to have much common sense. (sorry!)

 

The question about how would you prioritise these two jobs; the headteacher can't print, or a class full of students can't logon. Now, i know the answer to this, but i wouldn't expect anyone without an understanding of basic education values to instantly know the answer, and it isn't something that couldn't be explained in 2 minutes, hardly a deal-breaker.

 

For me, i would rather feel confident that someone had excellent communication skills, was able to manage an inventory, was able to source competitive pricing on consumables, dealt with people in a friendly and helpful manner, was enthusiastic about IT in the classroom, had an enthusiasm for video production, website maintenance etc.

 

I think we apply far too much weight to understanding AD Schema, OSI, MCE, MCSA/E CCNA qualifications (i cannot remeber the last time i had to use any of the knowledge from my CCNA let alone a technician)

 

Sorry for the rant

[Domino]

Depends on the size of your school, but I'd say with the increased reliance/use of IT and networks you'll eventually need to be looking at those kind of industry level skills.

 

I'd certainly say as I left my last post I was doing less and less of the web and media stuff, and they hired a media tech to pick it up as I simply didn't have time with the IT side.

 

however it does totally depend on how you work at your school, but I see it heading more and more towards IT staff being IT staff, rather than catch alls.

[localzuk]

Seen a few posts lately asking for advice on questions that potential IT support technicians may be asked at interview, and i have been suprised by some of the topics discussed.

 

As operating systems and software have developed, i feel the technician role has moved somewhat.

 

As an NM, if i were seeking a Support technician; turning up promptly to get a laptop and data projector working, in focus and nicely dispalyed, is worth far more to me than quoting the OSI model and its various functions.

 

It depends on what that tech is going to be doing. OSI is a good theoretical system to know, as it allows a tech to understand fundamentally how things work. Not relevant for all jobs, but for some it will be!

 

The question about how would you prioritise these two jobs; the headteacher can't print, or a class full of students can't logon. Now, i know the answer to this, but i wouldn't expect anyone without an understanding of basic education values to instantly know the answer, and it isn't something that couldn't be explained in 2 minutes, hardly a deal-breaker.

 

Surely when you're taking someone on in any job, they should have some form of knowledge of that business/organisation? There are an awful lot of people applying for IT jobs in the UK, so the amount of 'bang for your buck' a school can get when hiring a new tech is significantly higher now than it was even 5 years ago. Prioritisation in an education environment is a key skill I'd expect of any applicant if we had a tech job going!

 

For me, i would rather feel confident that someone had excellent communication skills, was able to manage an inventory, was able to source competitive pricing on consumables, dealt with people in a friendly and helpful manner, was enthusiastic about IT in the classroom, had an enthusiasm for video production, website maintenance etc.

 

You're obviously working in an old fashioned view of IT support in a school, in my mind. No longer are our networks ad-hoc, having grown from the work of an maths teacher who set it up. IT is now business class being installed in an incredibly complex environment. Sure, communication skills are important for any tech job, as is enthusiasm - but a technical knowledge is more important to me I'd say.

 

I think we apply far too much weight to understanding AD Schema, OSI, MCE, MCSA/E CCNA qualifications (i cannot remeber the last time i had to use any of the knowledge from my CCNA let alone a technician)

 

Why? So you'd be happy to hire someone who was happy, could talk well and was good with the kids in a classroom, and could fiddle with videos but didn't have a clue about a network, or how to diagnose issues on the latest Windows OS, or on managed switches? Seems that you want to hire a Classroom Assistant rather than a Technician to me...

[steele_uk]

 

I'd certainly say as I left my last post I was doing less and less of the web and media stuff, and they hired a media tech to pick it up

 

I would love to employ a media tech, however i can't because (i have been told by lea) it does not exist within the LEA framework.

[pete]

While the non-technical skills are relevant and necessary, the flipside is that should I get hit by a bus/off sick for an extended period, she/he'll have everything dumped on them for up to a month while a replacement is sourced/I get better with no backup apart from edugeek.

 

They must be able to handle that for short periods without screwing up too gloriously and so I have a baseline "must demonstrate at least X technical knowledge" in interviews. I don't want to walk back into the building to find the end-users in revolt, the server room on fire and backups neglected.

 

You can assess that through structured questions (OSI model is too standard/easy) or in more open-ended questions based on their cv contents or problems you've experienced / fixed at work.

[srochford]

The range of skills that you need in a person depends massively on the kind of organisation. If you have a small place with 1 or 2 IT staff then they pretty much need to be able to do everything. Understanding AD schema, OSI models and so on will take up some part of their time. If you have a large organisation then you are going to have specialists and you don't need that full range of skills in everyone - you need some people who will be doing little more than setting up desktop PCs and fixing printer jams and you need a different batch of people who completely understand DNS, DHCP etc.

 

From what I've read and seen, most schools seem to have no more than 2-3 people. I imagine that one of those people will be reasonably skilled and probably have a title like "network manager". The others will perhaps have lower skill levels but will (I hope) get the opportunity to learn more on the job. In this case, if you're interviewing for the "low skill" person then you're not trying to find out if they can configure a core switch but you're trying to find out if they have basic common sense, good customer service skills and a willingness and ability to learn.

 

If schools move to an out-sourced model then this changes again. You can probably make do with 1 or 2 highly skilled people somewhere outside the school with the people in school being lower skilled but dealing with the crucial day-to-day stuff.

[AyatollahPies]

Seen a few posts lately asking for advice on questions that potential IT support technicians may be asked at interview, and i have been suprised by some of the topics discussed.

 

As operating systems and software have developed, i feel the technician role has moved somewhat.

 

As an NM, if i were seeking a Support technician; turning up promptly to get a laptop and data projector working, in focus and nicely dispalyed, is worth far more to me than quoting the OSI model and its various functions.

 

I don't know if its just me, but some of the suggested questions here don't seem to have much common sense. (sorry!)

 

The question about how would you prioritise these two jobs; the headteacher can't print, or a class full of students can't logon. Now, i know the answer to this, but i wouldn't expect anyone without an understanding of basic education values to instantly know the answer, and it isn't something that couldn't be explained in 2 minutes, hardly a deal-breaker.

 

For me, i would rather feel confident that someone had excellent communication skills, was able to manage an inventory, was able to source competitive pricing on consumables, dealt with people in a friendly and helpful manner, was enthusiastic about IT in the classroom, had an enthusiasm for video production, website maintenance etc.

 

I think we apply far too much weight to understanding AD Schema, OSI, MCE, MCSA/E CCNA qualifications (i cannot remeber the last time i had to use any of the knowledge from my CCNA let alone a technician)

 

Sorry for the rant

 

Amen to you!

 

[steele_uk]

It depends on what that tech is going to be doing. OSI is a good theoretical system to know, as it allows a tech to understand fundamentally how things work. Not relevant for all jobs, but for some it will be!

 

Differing views, i have had great techncians, who never needed to know the OSI model, to be able to go about their work in school. I can't even think of a situation when it would have been useful.

 

 

Surely when you're taking someone on in any job, they should have some form of knowledge of that business/organisation?

 

Agreed, but i don't care if you don't know how the school prioritises its support, as long as you can be told and apply that model.

 

 

You're obviously working in an old fashioned view of IT support in a school, in my mind. No longer are our networks ad-hoc, having grown from the work of an maths teacher who set it up. IT is now business class being installed in an incredibly complex environment. Sure, communication skills are important for any tech job, as is enthusiasm - but a technical knowledge is more important to me I'd say.

 

Disagree, we have enterprise class systems, and i am about to virtualize the 10 Proliants into VMware this year. I class myself as 3rd line support. My technician/s would be 1st/2nd line, anyone showing an aptitude to progress i am willing to invest in. I don't want a technician to be locked in an IT office all day, i don't think this helps our image at all.

 

 

Why? So you'd be happy to hire someone who was happy, could talk well and was good with the kids in a classroom, and could fiddle with videos but didn't have a clue about a network, or how to diagnose issues on the latest Windows OS, or on managed switches? Seems that you want to hire a Classroom Assistant rather than a Technician to me...

 

What? 'Fiddle with videos...?

 

Someone that engages with the current trends in ICT would be how i would have phrased it.

 

who said that to have one skill meant forsaking all others?

Edited February 16, 2010 by steele_uk

[localzuk]

Disagree, we have enterprise class systems, and i am about to virtualize the 10 Proliants into VMware this year. I class myself as 3rd line support. My technician/s would be 1st/2nd line, anyone showing an aptitude to progress i am willing to invest in. I don't want a technician to be locked in an IT office all day, i don't think this helps our image at all.

 

What has image got to do with anything? My point is rather to do with what we expect technicians to do. Maybe it is down to size as Domino says. For example, we're edging into needing a new person here - so any new person would need to be proficient in a wide range of things so they could be used as fall back should I vanish suddenly due to alien abduction...

 

What? 'Fiddle with videos...?

 

Yes, fiddle with videos. This is an end user task, not a technician task. IT support is there to maintain, train and advise as far as I'm concerned. We can occasionally help people directly when they're in a bit of a bind, but something like editing the content of a website, or making a video is outside that remit. Much like data entry would be - we would run the system but we don't deal with the content.

 

Someone that engages with the current trends in ICT would be how i would have phrased it.

 

who said that to have one skill meant forsaking all others?

 

You're the one who listed end user skills, namely editing websites and video editing.

 

Engaging in current trends in IT is good, but not to the extent where they do the jobs for the end users.

[penfold]

Have to say I agree with steele_uk. Looking at the wages that are advertised for an entry level technician I would have to say expecting someone to apply with all the knowledge that is required is a little short sighted. I would expect to find someone with a good general technical knowledge who is capable of learning more about networking if thats what the role entailed.

 

For me personally I like to be in a role which develops, and I would not expect a support technician to know how to setup and run a network(but if you found one its nice) but I would expect then to be able to learn new skills which could in turn allow them to take on more responsibility (such as covering in NM absense). Due to the general low pay in schools, I wouldn't expect anyone to stay too long if they already had the skills to administer a network, but were paid at a much lower scale.

 

I do believe that in a education it is VERY important that IT support staff can communicate to their users (both staff & pupils) in a good manner. It is fine being able to troubleshoot network problems, but if you cant explain why Mr Jones cant show his powerpoint they aren't going to be happy. So looking for someone with good communication skills, sound techinical/troubleshooting knowledge and the ability to learn would be important for me.

[penfold]

 

Yes, fiddle with videos. This is an end user task, not a technician task. IT support is there to maintain, train and advise as far as I'm concerned. We can occasionally help people directly when they're in a bit of a bind, but something like editing the content of a website, or making a video is outside that remit. Much like data entry would be - we would run the system but we don't deal with the content.

 

Depends on what the role is to be honest. If you are looking at someone who would be producing media content for those times when a school wanted to produce a promotional video or updating web content etc, you might be looking for those skills. I agree with you about using software/data entry is down to the end user NOT IT, but if the role is more than just fixing a printer/checking paper etc then it is only right that you should look for someone who can do this.

 

Remember as has been said, it depends on the size of the school/support team and what people are looking for which defines the skills needed. In all honesty whether people agree or not is irrelevent.

[steele_uk]

 

 

Yes, fiddle with videos. This is an end user task, not a technician task. IT support is there to maintain, train and advise as far as I'm concerned. We can occasionally help people directly when they're in a bit of a bind, but something like editing the content of a website, or making a video is outside that remit. Much like data entry would be - we would run the system but we don't deal with the content.

 

 

 

 

Ok, I see from that statement right there, we have completely differing views of our roles, and i'll leave it there:)

 

 

 

...but just for the record, my wording was; '..had an enthusiasm for video production, website maintenance etc...'

[localzuk]

If you are looking at someone who would be producing media content for those times when a school wanted to produce a promotional video or updating web content etc, you might be looking for those skills.

 

I'd never have considered those skills to fall under the title of 'IT Technician' though. They are a media technician and web content administration etc... Otherwise, the entire concept of an IT technician is impossible to define. ie. the role becomes 'we can dump anything slightly technical, or involves using a PC into one role', which is something which the profession has moved on from.

[penfold]

I'd never have considered those skills to fall under the title of 'IT Technician' though. They are a media technician and web content administration etc... Otherwise, the entire concept of an IT technician is impossible to define. ie. the role becomes 'we can dump anything slightly technical, or involves using a PC into one role', which is something which the profession has moved on from.

 

Might be something the profession has moved on from, but many schools haven't:p

 

Many skills fall under the remit of an IT technician just because there isn't a big enough team to have seperate roles. As I said, it depends on what your looking for.

[russdev]

I look for who ever I need for my time. To be very blunt I would not want a team full of High D's or C's but a mixture of people.

 

I think image is very important for the department I do want someone who understands ( or willing to work at it) that image of department matters so if they are rude and arrogant then it reflects badly on everybody.

 

I would be looking to see where skills we lack in the department so that we can hire to fill that.

 

Also to certain degree on an entry level jobs technical skills as long as some basics are there can be taught.

 

So my answer it depends on the job.

[sonofsanta]

Agreed that technical skills are not the be all and end all of this job. When I posted in the other thread about questions on the OSI model, those are questions I myself had been through, not set (and, for the record - I couldn't remember it all either, so fluffed a couple of entries, but still got the job as NM).

 

There is so much in terms of technical knowledge needed to deal with a modern school system that it's well above the payscale most LEA's advertise at. You can advertise your wish list but you are not ever going to get someone with all the technical skills required, nor should you expect to.

 

There is still a vast ocean between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge in tech support. Yes, the theory is fabulous to know, in order to understand (and not just follow) best practice, and to be fulyl conscious of what you are doing. If it came down to it, though, I would employ someone with the practical knowledge over the theoretical, unless I was deliebrately hiring for the long term and could afford to have "half a man" while the theory specialist gained some experience.

 

As others have said, the most important thing would be troubleshooting and communication. Troubleshooting isn't following a checklist, either; it's the logical outlook and ability to break everything down into steps and cover the ground thoroughly. Communication is, sadly, a priority for schools as well; schools have the widest range of users of any location. What other industry would you support end users ranging from 11 to 70 with a range of skills from "can't work out computers need plugging in" to "hacked your network and stole your stuff"? You need to be able to talk to all of these people at the appropriate level, and quickly; neither students nor teachers are the most patient of people with technology.

 

As an example, my predecessor in this job was fantastic technically, but wasn't as hot on his communication skills; the end result now is that the network is working beautifully from the ground work he did, but I'm getting the praise because people find me more approachable. I could never have done the work he did, it was heroic; but nobody outside our department realises this because he built himself an ivory tower.

 

To summarise my ramblings: the kind of person is far more important for a technician than the qualifications. Techie is a first rung on the ladder; you won't get the expert, so get the good worker.

[steele_uk]

....my predecessor in this job was fantastic technically, but wasn't as hot on his communication skills; the end result now is that the network is working beautifully from the ground work he did, but I'm getting the praise because people find me more approachable. I could never have done the work he did, it was heroic; but nobody outside our department realises this because he built himself an ivory tower.

 

To summarise my ramblings: the kind of person is far more important for a technician than the qualifications. Techie is a first rung on the ladder; you won't get the expert, so get the good worker.

 

This is a far better example of what i was trying to say. Personally, I feel our school would benefit from an approachable individual, that had a can-do attitude, and was enthusiastic about the ICT tools in the learning environment irrespective of qualifications.

[steele_uk]

What has image got to do with anything? .

 

Image or, perception of the IT support team effectiveness is massively important. Do not underestimate it.

[somabc]

Hmm well the last questions I had at a job interview (for a 3rd line role) surprised me in that they said they were going to ask technical questions only ie none of this what have you achieved, whats your greatest weakness etc.

 

Fair enough but they then asked 5 (not very) technical questions

 

1) What is a Domain?

2) What is Active Directory?

3) How would you administer Server 2003?

4) How do you keep your server patching up to date?

5) How would you backup a server?

 

and that was the end of the interview

[mac_shinobi]

Hmm well the last questions I had at a job interview (for a 3rd line role) surprised me in that they said they were going to ask technical questions only ie none of this what have you achieved, whats your greatest weakness etc.

 

Fair enough but they then asked 5 (not very) technical questions

 

1) What is a Domain?

2) What is Active Directory?

3) How would you administer Server 2003?

4) How do you keep your server patching up to date?

5) How would you backup a server?

 

and that was the end of the interview

 

Would the answers be something along the lines of ....

 

1. A collection of computers that are joined by a server or servers so as to apply security settings etc.

2. A database of objects ( users, computers , etc )

3. ??? not sure on this one would be good to get clarification or the answer ( group policy or what exactly ? )

4. WSUS ?

5. backup software to tape / nas or the likes with at least some way of taking a backup off site on weekends / holidays etc

[somabc]

Would the answers be something along the lines of ....

 

1. A collection of computers that are joined by a server or servers so as to apply security settings etc.

2. A database of objects ( users, computers , etc )

3. ??? not sure on this one would be good to get clarification or the answer ( group policy or what exactly ? )

4. WSUS ?

5. backup software to tape / nas or the likes with at least some way of taking a backup off site on weekends / holidays etc

 

3) From my laptop while sat on the beach?

Edited February 16, 2010 by somabc

[mac_shinobi]

3) From my laptop while sat on the beach?

 

lol as in terminal services ?

[AyatollahPies]

Hmm well the last questions I had at a job interview (for a 3rd line role) surprised me in that they said they were going to ask technical questions only ie none of this what have you achieved, whats your greatest weakness etc.

 

Fair enough but they then asked 5 (not very) technical questions

 

1) What is a Domain?

2) What is Active Directory?

3) How would you administer Server 2003?

4) How do you keep your server patching up to date?

5) How would you backup a server?

 

and that was the end of the interview

 

I'd rather sit a day long exam than have to answer questions about my greatest achievements or what my weaknesses are. I've always considered them to be lazy questions.

 

I'd love it if they always just asked simple questions like those above.

[srochford]

I'd rather sit a day long exam than have to answer questions about my greatest achievements or what my weaknesses are. I've always considered them to be lazy questions.

 

I'd love it if they always just asked simple questions like those above.

 

They're lazy questions in that the interviewer has to do no work to prepare them but they can be really useful in working out what sort of person you're dealing with. Communication is really important if you work in ICT and lots of people who are good at the technical stuff are not very good at the human bit of the job (and frequently take pride in that!) There are no "right" answers to questions like "what are your greatest achievements" - there's just a way to answer it which shows that you can communicate and do understand what your job is about (it's not just about making a set of boxes work properly)

[localzuk]

Surely things like what you consider your greatest achievements would be included on your covering letter? ie. That letter would be crafted to highlight your biggest achievements from your previous role, whilst ensuring that they are relevant to the organisation you are applying to.

 

Asking someone about their greatest achievements would be a little odd if they've already discussed them on their letter.

 

Whereas, with technical skills, it is very difficult to list everything you know on your CV. My CV would be 10 pages long if I listed everything I knew relevant to a school's IT. Not to mention, a person can easily write that they can manage a 2008 AD domain but whether or not it is true is another matter!

 

Yes, non-technical skills (communication, ability to learn, enthusiasm etc...) are important but if they lack the technical skills, you'd be hiring someone who is actually going to slow you down and increase your workload for quite some time to come. If you wanted someone like that, why not look into apprenticeships?