Getting rid of Winsuite

[BrianG]

One of my schools is coming up to having their server replaced. They are currently running Winsuite. I want to put forward a case fro getting rid of Winsuite. The head is very keen on keeping it. He believes it helps the younger students but all my other school have a vanilla network and get on just fine.

 

 

Just wondered if anyone had got any suggestions of what I can put to him to try and change his mind

[Jon]

If you are getting a new server make sure it is windows 2008.

 

Winsuite will not run on server 2008

[BrianG]

I like your thinking. The problem is, i have to convince him not to use it again. If i put 2008 in and winsuite doesn't work, without convincing him he's better of without it i'll get shot

[Jon]

The only real reason I can think of for keeping winsuite is that the users can simply click on thier user name to log on.

 

Whithout it users will have to type in a username and password which you may find will take KS1 pupils/teachers a while to get used to.

 

Everything else winsuite does can be done much better by using group policies.

[BrianG]

Everything is done now using group policies. I took all that side aawy from WInsuite along time ago. The only thing winsuite does now is the log on screen and the desktop manager. I understand why he likes winsuite, from his point of view, but from mine it's just a pain in the

[sted]

been there

 

had a server install booked rearranged all other visits for 2 days or so to do it and the day before head cancels it (server was already on site and plugged in) because whe diddnt want to lose this awful bit of software. In the end it was finally got through to them that its better if pcs look like xp because thats what kids have got at home anyway and a few simple n/r/y1/y2 logins with no passwords and simplifies start menu/desktop icons and i havnt had many issues (though ive avoided the head even more than usual in that school). Though with server 2008 you could if needs must hyper v a 2003 server for winsuite if all else fails (again school has this for pwinting i was having issues finding matching 2008r2 x64 and x86 drivers so i just hyperv'd a 2003 r2 print server.

 

In this day and age winsuite really has no place kids know more about pcs than most staff anyway and worst case give em laminated bits of card with username / password on job done

[laserblazer]

Winsuite must be coming to the end of its life. They haven't supported anything post XP to my knowledge, so persuade him that he will have to bite the bullet at sometime, so why not now.

[sted]

Winsuite must be coming to the end of its life. They haven't supported anything post XP to my knowledge, so persuade him that he will have to bite the bullet at sometime, so why not now.

 

because from a teachers point of view esp ks1 its great kids can just look themselves up on a list and the fisher price interface is really obvious and easy. From an administration point of view its a pig but end users rightly dont really care especially if "its always been like that"

[Jon]

been there

 

Though with server 2008 you could if needs must hyper v a 2003 server for winsuite if all else fails (again school has this for pwinting i was having issues finding matching 2008r2 x64 and x86 drivers so i just hyperv'd a 2003 r2 print server.

 

In this day and age winsuite really has no place kids know more about pcs than most staff anyway and worst case give em laminated bits of card with username / password on job done

 

You could do this but ... the virtual machine would have to also be a domain controller as winsuite needs to run on the PDC emulator ... This would then of course mean having to run your domain in win2003 mode rather than native windows 2008.

 

It really is time to get shot of winsuite, it is holding back the way you run your network if you don't.

[sted]

You could do this but ... the virtual machine would have to also be a domain controller as winsuite needs to run on the PDC emulator ... This would then of course mean having to run your domain in win2003 mode rather than native windows 2008.

 

It really is time to get shot of winsuite, it is holding back the way you run your network if you don't.

 

as far as im aware there is 0 functional difference between 2008 and 2003 domain levels you only have the option there for consistency with other versions of server

Edited February 1, 2010 by sted

[laserblazer]

We had a similar issue here but it wasn't a big deal. I guess if you have very young kids it might be more of an ordeal but they all should be capable of typing their name? IMHO you are not doing anyone any favours by hanging on and you should mahe the HT aware of this. If it helps, he can talk to our ICT Coordinator to see how painless it was to change.

[BrianG]

This is the thing. Every one of my other schools manage perfectly well without Winsuite. they can log on using FS or KS1 or their users which is normally something like 9fs for example. he's very stuck in his ways. He always thinks that he can control things using winsuite because he has the administrator password to get into the console. He doesn't realise, yet, that i took all the control away.

 

One thing I'm going to play hard is the licensing issue. They are currently 10 machines over their license so it pops up everytime anyone logs on telling you that fact. Hopefully He'll see the extra expense just isn't worth it.

 

One other thing I'd thought of, i don't think there is an easy way to get it off the clients, in order to install from the newly installed version on the new server so a possible re-image of all 70 clients would add to the installation time.. nightmare

[sted]

if you do keep winsuite as long as you install the same version i cant remember reinstalling clients but i could be wrong its been a long time (and new server always ends up with old servers name)

[Jon]

as far as im aware there is 0 functional difference between 2008 and 2003 domain levels you only have the option there for consistency with other versions of server

 

These are the differences that I am aware of

 

Distributed File System replication support for SYSVOL,

Advanced encryption,

Last Interactive Logon information,

Fine-grained password policies (Have not used this but could be very usefull)

[BrianG]

and new server always ends up with old servers name)

 

Thats the bit i was wondering. If the paths would / could be updated or whether it would need iradicating from the network completely before I could re-install.

 

I had to install some software on the computers the other day, then spend half an hour putting the new sub menus into Winsuite, and the buttons and the locating the icons because the head wanted the correct icons next to the button.. aghh !!!

[HodgeHi]

we used to have Winsuite here. I removed everything when i first started and rebuilt the lot from ground up.

 

Treating kids like their dense doesn't help. Kids will learn what they need to learn to get to what they want to do. It's staff that hold them back.

 

We have kids in Reception that can login. They have to type in their username and password and these are built using their firstname, first letter of their lastname and a number which is based on their age when they first started at this school.

 

Admittedly not all of them can do it but it's good typing practise anyway. Get's them used to finding the letters on the keyboard and matching them up with actual letters (they have their logins on a name card that they take to the ICT room).

 

Hope this helps.

[BrianG]

You're right. treating the kids like they are daft doesn't help. Most kids use a computer at home. Theyw ill all use Windows when they get to Secondary, whether it be XP, Vista or 7. Winsuite really isn't doing them any favours. I might jus reinstall the server and accidentally lose the Winsuite set up cds

[sted]

Thats the bit i was wondering. If the paths would / could be updated or whether it would need iradicating from the network completely before I could re-install.

 

I had to install some software on the computers the other day, then spend half an hour putting the new sub menus into Winsuite, and the buttons and the locating the icons because the head wanted the correct icons next to the button.. aghh !!!

 

Try something like netop that on a teachers pc loads fine from all user startup but if they close it it asks for the serial key when they use winsuite to start it i had to write a batch file to launch it. textease ct sometimes can be like this (come to think of it so can nelson handwriting font). it is really annoying when even though windows shortcut has an icon for programme x winsuite shows nowt

 

These are the differences that I am aware of

 

Distributed File System replication support for SYSVOL,

Advanced encryption,

Last Interactive Logon information,

Fine-grained password policies (Have not used this but could be very usefull)

 

im sure all the 2008 courses ive been on says schema etc is identical (though they were all pre r2)

[sted]

You're right. treating the kids like they are daft doesn't help. Most kids use a computer at home. Theyw ill all use Windows when they get to Secondary, whether it be XP, Vista or 7. Winsuite really isn't doing them any favours. I might jus reinstall the server and accidentally lose the Winsuite set up cds

 

easier to lose the liscence floppy or not spec a floppy drive n the server

[Jon]

 

 

im sure all the 2008 courses ive been on says schema etc is identical (though they were all pre r2)

 

Here is a table that illustrates the different functional levels.

 

Windows Server 2008 Domain and Forest Functional Levels | Servers and Storage | TechRepublic.com

[timzim]

The whole point of WinSuite is to make managing your network easier. It was created in the days of teachers managing the network in their spare time, to allow them to apply Group Policies without knowing anything about Group Policies. As such it was a very useful tool but those days are now gone. As soon as it becomes harder to do manage the network with the tool than without it then it's time to stop using it. And since you say you've already turned off all the management options then it's pointless.

 

As for the Winsuite Desktop - it's basically Windows 3.1. If Microsoft dropped that in 1995 (presumably because it's too difficult for users to navigate) then why is your Head still clinging to it? It's an absolute ****** to administer and dreadful for the end-user. Would he use FrontPage Express to design the school website?

 

For kids who are already using computers (my 3 year old is) starting on Winsuite is like having to learn a completely new OS; for those who start on WinSuite and then move to proper Windows later on it's the same thing - he's disadvantaging both groups of kids for the sake of a whim.

[plexer]

Also take note of the following:

 

Sales of winsuite are currently suspended pending an internal review of wether it's viable for the company to continue to support and I get the impression that the answer is likely to be that it will be terminated.

 

It hasn't been actively developed since 2005.

 

If you have a problem for instance if you install a new program and it doesn't work correctly with winsuite you are stuffed as they cannot provide support on that.

 

Ben

[BrianG]

Also take note of the following:

 

Sales of winsuite are currently suspended pending an internal review of wether it's viable for the company to continue to support and I get the impression that the answer is likely to be that it will be terminated.

 

It hasn't been actively developed since 2005.

 

If you have a problem for instance if you install a new program and it doesn't work correctly with winsuite you are stuffed as they cannot provide support on that.

 

Ben

 

 

I wasn't aware of that. That's definately something that's going into my argument. I'm meeting with him today so I'll let you know how I get on

[farmerste]

although winsuite had good and bad points, i think this 'type' of software will emmerge once again, as the latest offerings from microsh@ft have been a waste of space as far as the user interface settings are concerned.

The main use of winsuite that i saw, was using W98 clients connected to NT or 2K servers, and the desktop customisation, and control it gave. ( much easier than writing .policies)

When winxp became the desktop connected to 2K3 server, then group policy was much better, but the user add feature was excellent for adding new domain users in a couple if clicks. ( i still use it )

With microsh@fts new dictatorship approach to networks ( YOU WILL STOP USING THE BEST WAY AND ADOPT OUR ONE) i can see similar software appearing again. Though i seriously doubt i will ever be able to do 'as good' a job as i have achieved using xp, and server 2k3.

[laserblazer]

Now they have usernames, at least our kids will be able to spell their name by the time they leave us!