Sivadam Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) There are very many teachers in our school who have experienced other MIS packages in previous schools who are delighted with SIMS and what it can do for teaching staff in terms of T&L. That is not knocking those other systems - maybe they were not set up to efficiently deliver what our SIMS system is set up to deliver. Inflexible is the last word to use re. SIMS - flexibility is one of it's strengths. It is far more configurable than some other systems! What do you want it to do that it can't do that others can? And Moodle ain't an MIS! Edited October 18, 2010 by Sivadam
matt40k Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Basic core SIMS is pretty cheap, it's when you start adding on all the extras, that's when it becomes expensive. Unfortunately, Capita sales people are pretty good at selling the extras so SIMS appears £££. I know there is a company (Core?) selling SIMS web parts as part of a VLE solution - based on Sharepoint.
localzuk Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 There are very many teachers in our school who have experienced other MIS packages in previous schools who are delighted with SIMS and what it can do for teaching staff in terms of T&L. That is not knocking those other systems - maybe they were not set up to efficiently deliver what our SIMS system is set up to deliver. Inflexible is the last word to use re. SIMS - flexibility is one of it's strengths. It is far more configurable than some other systems! What do you want it to do that it can't do that others can? And Moodle ain't an MIS! Sivadam, he has specifically said that he's not looked for fixes to issues. He's looking for alternatives. Stating that other people are happy with it is neither here nor there! And he didn't say Moodle was an MIS, he stated that he'd helped a school move from a Capita sold VLE to Moodle.
Sivadam Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Here we go again! Maybe I can get my Red Squares back up again! My reputation was disintegrating! I am suspicious of every new user who attacks SIMS for no good reason. History has pointed to the fact that are are 'mischievous' posters on here. There has to be a reason why one 'hates' software! Apologies to the OP if this does not apply to him/her! 1
GrumbleDook Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 In defence of Sivadam ... If someone doesn't like a product (The OP states he hates SIMS) then it is helpful to understand what they hate as other products may do the exact same. It is better to state the full requirements for the software, highlight differences between commonly used products and move on. 1
creese Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 My challenge to you – give me 18 months, a small budget a couple of software developers and I’ll produce a School MIS Systems to knock the rest into touch at less than half the cost.Teachers Give you? Try the dragons. 1
localzuk Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 In defence of Sivadam ... If someone doesn't like a product (The OP states he hates SIMS) then it is helpful to understand what they hate as other products may do the exact same. It is better to state the full requirements for the software, highlight differences between commonly used products and move on. Indeed, the first post Sivadam made covered this. The second post, pretty much saying 'you must be wrong, as others like it' did not. 1
matt40k Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 My challenge to you – give me 18 months, a small budget a couple of software developers and I’ll produce a School MIS Systems to knock the rest into touch at less than half the cost.Teachers Be tempting, just what would we get if he fails, other then a big grin from the big MIS players
GrumbleDook Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 @camcgoo Ok, putting aside the word 'hate' ... the general MIS products out there are CMIS, Integris, E1 and now we have a few FOSS offerings too. Most do pretty much the same thing, with emphasis on particular areas. CMIS does rely on the setup being right in the first place, and it is heavily configurable with permissions, but I still feel it is a bit clunky in the look and feel. Most people will make use of ePortal (the web front-end for it) anyway ... but I never found the generation of reports as easy as it was in SIMS. I don't have enough experience of E1, Integris or the FOSS offerings to be able to give a really god review of them, but I would suggest that BETT might be a good place for you to go to, to see them all side by side. Make sure that you have a really good outline of your requirements, from a user's and a manager's point of view ... think not just about how easy it needs to be to input or view data, but also how the data might be re-used or cross-referenced / analysed. Also think about other products which may sit by the side or on top of the MIS. Moodle and Sharepoint is good examples of this, where there are products which can make use of the data in the MIS to improve how you use these products. There may be other products which can site on top of the MIS (SIMS examples only at the moment ...) such as Brommcom, PARS, etc which can add more functionality or a better look and feel. 1
creese Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Be tempting, just what would we get if he fails, other then a big grin from the big MIS players 18 month with someone else's money. No risk on the OP's part.
timzim Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 ...give me 18 months, a small budget a couple of software developers and I’ll produce a School MIS Systems to knock the rest into touch at less than half the cost I could give you 18 months and a small budgie - would that be ok?? 1
Sivadam Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) Indeed, the first post Sivadam made covered this. The second post, pretty much saying 'you must be wrong, as others like it' did not. My second post was a direct response to the response I received from my first post on this topic. As such it is very relevant as I was responding to two reasons why this poster 'hates SIMS'! And one was rather a nebulous reason too! Edited October 19, 2010 by Sivadam
creese Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 I am new to Education as a Data Manager but have spent about 25 years in the IT industry as either a Software Developer or Information Analyst. My background has covered Systems Integration and Software Design for the Retail, Automotive, Insurance and Healthcare sectors (NHS). My experience of the NHS system is that it is a pretty poor system. Often not working, very slow and not very good with inter-agency communication (which usually comes down to take this note to reception just down the corridor).
scholarpack Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 My experience of the NHS system is that it is a pretty poor system. Often not working, very slow and not very good with inter-agency communication (which usually comes down to take this note to reception just down the corridor). The NHS Patient Administration System is truly awful. Source: parent worked as IT data manger for 20 years in hospitals. Always complaining about how slow it was, how the ward nurses don't have time to do data entry ("that's not my job!") and so on. Seems to me the solution would be MORE low level admin staff to deal with coding and validation so ward nurses don't have to use a computer - in the main they hate the computer part of their jobs but love the patient side.. But try getting the go ahead for more admin staff these days
cacmcgoo Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 thanks to all for your opinions and interesting advice. I will never use the word hate again! 1
vikpaw Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Sickens, disgusts and revolts are all perfectly fine, though. thanks to all for your opinions and interesting advice. I will never use the word hate again! I like the word 'hate' so feel free to use it if you like. It doesn't necessarily mean your Data manager or your school is inefficient or badly setup. There are a number of reasons that you could encounter that would justifiably allow you to say you hate SIMS or any other MIS for that matter (in the interest of fairness). This is more so the case if you are an end user, under the pressures of teaching those little troublemakers who will one day inherit the earth from us. Lots of our users here hate SIMS, despite all the good i do for it, and i'm sure it's the same for other MISes too. Everybody wants something different, and it is very infuriating when things don't work as you want them to, for whatever reason. As Grumbledook said, it's the reasoning that makes the difference. If we didn't 'hate' things in windows 2000, they wouldn't have known what to improve to give us windows 7.
creese Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Sickens, disgusts and revolts are all perfectly fine, though. Or hate plus the reasons. I'm still curious.
creese Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Most people hate SIMS because......well because thay have to use it. They would hate a replacement just as much, no matter how pretty or useable it was.
scholarpack Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Most people hate SIMS because......well because thay have to use it. They would hate a replacement just as much, no matter how pretty or useable it was. I think people 'hate' software when the developers don't fix problems quicky, efficiently and effectively. All software has bugs/niggles. When end users point things out, if they know the issue is going to be fixed quickly, they're going to be happier. Support calls that last weeks (or months!) rather than days are the main reason end users 'hate' software. Can you imagine calling up Microsoft and getting the gaping IE7 security holes fixed within days.... There's a well known psychological theory that says people who complain, and are listened to and actioned, go away happier and more satisfied than if they have never complained at all...
Sivadam Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I hate people who hate SIMS! As I continually say here, when somebody comes up with something new and I manage to resolve it easily through SIMS:- 'Ain't SIMS Wonderful?' It is a standing joke here but most actually agree! I am sure that other MISs in other schools will do the same!
GrumbleDook Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 You get the same with a change of management in schools too ... As Mr Pratchett once put Avé! Bossa nova! Similis bossa seneca! The same could be said about software ...
creese Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 ISupport calls that last weeks (or months!) rather than days are the main reason end users 'hate' software. That is an extreme rarity from where I stand, or sit. Our callers complain after 30 mins. I think you will find some people complain, because they can complain.
JPS Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Do you really think it would make great business sense for MIS suppliers to give you "open access" to all your data? Take CMIS, anyone know of a way to import data back into its DB through Facility ; ) Using the data transfer function??
GREED Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I hate people who hate SIMS! As I continually say here, when somebody comes up with something new and I manage to resolve it easily through SIMS:- 'Ain't SIMS Wonderful?' It is a standing joke here but most actually agree! I am sure that other MISs in other schools will do the same! Heard that one Mike!
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