synaesthesia Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I don't. I expect them to stay pretty much put, or continue to rise. Clearly the case here is that Bromcom can't get a look in and they're getting a little upset about it. Fair enough, business is business. Plus, how much credability can you give a news article which finishes, amusingly: "Education software is used by half a million staff in 22,000 schools." Really? There's always going to be pros and cons when developing and marketing software like an MIS - compatibility between OS's is always a big one and would certainly drive up the costs. Yeah, it may well be great on an open source OS but then you need to hire the expertise to develop for them, to support them. That's even more cost when everyone wants it to come down - another cost that would merely increase.
GREED Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I bet, or rather know for a fact, that the percentage of software that works on all OSs, or even more that one OS is tiny compared to that that only works on Windows. Despite all the will in the world Windows is the market leader for OSs and so companies are going to put all their efforts into developing systems for just that.
Sivadam Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Look what is on SupportNet, posted by Phil Neal:- Allegations made in the press by Bromcom Please find below the statement that Capita issued to the press in response to journalist’s enquires about a press statement issued by Bromcom. Capita Children's Services has already, through its solicitors, robustly rebutted the unfounded allegations made by Bromcom. We have served the education market for a number of years and grown our business through supplying innovative products to meet the changing needs of the market, maintaining good client relationships and working successfully with other suppliers. Edited December 10, 2009 by Sivadam
Oops_my_bad Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) A good reason for a standard MIS system country wide - there would be no smaller companies to have a hissy-fit and throw toys out of their pram just because they have an inferior product Edited December 10, 2009 by Oops_my_bad
garrysaddington Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 That is not entirely fair, unless of course you back up your assertion of inferior product by explanation. I have nothing to do with Bromcom by the way.
garrysaddington Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 A good reason for a standard MIS system country wide No chance of this I'm afraid until government gain the 'b****' to standardise/back one product/stop being scared of big business, or all three.
DMcCoy Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 Well we have been offered the bargain price of £450 to customise the colours and add a logo to a predefined learning gateway template. Seeing as this takes about 10 minutes (I did ours so I should know ) it's a pretty good return for them!
garrysaddington Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 This is called exploitation, how are they allowed to get away with it?
vikpaw Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Well we have been offered the bargain price of £450 to customise the colours and add a logo to a predefined learning gateway template. Seeing as this takes about 10 minutes (I did ours so I should know ) it's a pretty good return for them! AND that is the half price special offer price!
GREED Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Just when I thought this topic was done and dusted...
DMcCoy Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Those in glass houses...... We are currently being held hostage by Bromcom (at least that's how it feels) because we are on an old version of your MIS software. I can't use things like version 3 of Winfolder. Letter designer and generator do not work completely on vista, but there is no one there who can fix it because it appears that no original developers are left. The answer to everything is to attempt to sell us the new version. This is especially frustrating after the large amounts of maintenance we continue to pay, which doesn't include major version upgrades and increasingly little support on our aged equipment. I don't like any MIS though.
GREED Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Might get myself into trouble here, but dare I ask how it is that, plan and simple, Capita has a huge market share of schools in terms of MIS delivery? Forgetting all else... might it be that they just have the best product???
Sivadam Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 One wonders if one ought to comment on this .............. One also wonders if one would be admonished if one did post a VERY relevant comment ........ Maybe I should and they would close the topic!
localzuk Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Might get myself into trouble here, but dare I ask how it is that, plan and simple, Capita has a huge market share of schools in terms of MIS delivery? Forgetting all else... might it be that they just have the best product??? You can't come to that conclusion, as the issue is that they've supposedly been anti-competitive. Part of that via lock-in. (Note, supposedly) Its like saying that Windows is the best O/S product or Internet Explorer being the best browser, but you can't say it due to Microsoft having been found guilty on several occasions of anti-competitive behaviour. 'All else' is what is important, you can't just ignore it.
skunk Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 I have issues with both companies mentioned on this forum as we use products produced by both of them and are generally charged a great deal by both for very little. The idea that SIMS is BEST, just made me shower my monitor with tea, really? Really? REALLY? If it is, then heaven help us all........now I am going to go away and cry that this may in fact be the reality!
Sivadam Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Maybe the answer is that SIMS is such a very, very good Product. Yes, there may be other good systems out there but once you have become skilled in the various aspects of ALL of SIMS then there really is no point in looking elsewhere. Very few systems can do MORE than SIMS and there is absolutely no point whatsoever in using add-on systems, when SIMS systems are so good in the first place. Skunk, maybe you should post your Issues with Capita Support Desk. One wonders what they are however ......... If the product is as bad as you say then why don't people like myself pursuade the school to go elsewhere? There is absolutely no way I would even contemplate that! Edited December 16, 2009 by Sivadam
DMcCoy Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Maybe the answer is that SIMS is such a very, very good Product. Yes, there may be other good systems out there but once you have become skilled in the various aspects of ALL of SIMS then there really is no point in looking elsewhere. Very few systems can do MORE than SIMS and there is absolutely no point whatsoever in using add-on systems, when SIMS systems are so good in the first place. Skunk, maybe you should post your Issues with Capita Support Desk. One wonders what they are, however ......... Apart from learning gateway. Which is rubbish. Do you know what it does if the database is busy during user creation? I doesn't write the logon name back into SIMS, making the provisioned account unusable. I was told that this was by design and the only way to fix is to repeatedly run the account report to look for blanks, remove and re-add the SLG provision for broken accounts. Support didn't get me far there did it!
Sivadam Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Some people would actually disagree with you re. SLG as well. And the enhancements that will be coming will make it even more user friendly. It currently does the job it was designed for - and does that very well. And I did not have the problems that you seem to have encountered! Our system must have been 'busy' when I provisioned. One wonders how 'busy' it would need to be to get the error .... Edited December 16, 2009 by Sivadam
GREED Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Ok best maybe not the ideal word there... But are people above really saying that Capita ONLY have a market share because they lock their customers into the product and have to stay with them? If not, then there must be some foundation to my comment that Capita have a decent product.
localzuk Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Maybe the answer is that SIMS is such a very, very good Product. Yes, there may be other good systems out there but once you have become skilled in the various aspects of ALL of SIMS then there really is no point in looking elsewhere. Very few systems can do MORE than SIMS and there is absolutely no point whatsoever in using add-on systems, when SIMS systems are so good in the first place. Skunk, maybe you should post your Issues with Capita Support Desk. One wonders what they are however ......... If the product is as bad as you say then why don't people like myself pursuade the school to go elsewhere? There is absolutely no way I would even contemplate that! You're not grasping the concept of 'anti-competitive' and 'lock-in' that is being used here - the reason others have had such trouble gaining ground is supposedly partly down to the way Capita has been doing business - making it difficult for people to leave (lock-in). Apart from learning gateway. Which is rubbish. Do you know what it does if the database is busy during user creation? I doesn't write the logon name back into SIMS, making the provisioned account unusable. I was told that this was by design and the only way to fix is to repeatedly run the account report to look for blanks, remove and re-add the SLG provision for broken accounts. Support didn't get me far there did it! There are a great many issues with SLG, yep. That one is quite an amazing one to be honest! Some people would actually disagree with you re. SLG as well. And the enhancements that will be coming will make it even more user friendly. It currently does the job it was designed for - and does that very well. I made a page of notes of issues I had with the SLG when I went to our LEA training course for it. I should dig them out at some point and somehow get them to Capita. The issue I have here is that support requests must go via our LEA. There are issues such as a lack of use of Ajax in random places, so the user ends up having to do full page changes between actions. Things like things hopping to the top of a page when they are working through a list IIRC. Lots of small inconsistencies and issues that just make it irritating.
localzuk Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Ok best maybe not the ideal word there... But are people above really saying that Capita ONLY have a market share because they lock their customers into the product and have to stay with them? If not, then there must be some foundation to my comment that Capita have a decent product. The thing is, we don't know what the market would look like now if they hadn't supposedly done these things.
skunk Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Sivadam, if you wish to see the reason why the Autumn Release is being delayed then you are quite welcome to visit our site.
GREED Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 Would be intersting to see the market place in 5 years if Broadcom gets everything they want, I wonder if the market share of school using Capita will a) jump ship, and b) will still have a good product because of forceable changes to break up the system.
Sivadam Posted December 16, 2009 Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) .......The issue I have here is that support requests must go via our LEA...... Then isn't this more a rant against your LA Support? If not satisfied then do what I pursuaded this school to do - opt out of LA Support! In my case it was no reflection on the LA - just that we were using far more of SIMS than the LA was supporting anyway - including Field Trialling! Edited December 16, 2009 by Sivadam
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