Good or Bad?

[Gatt]

Just found out that our school is to be merged with another school nearby - in about 4-5 years time

 

Both schools are to be closed and re-opened - with a capacity of 1500 - ours is currently 1200..

 

Don't like the sound of this as there is already an ICT Network Manager there..

 

Think I may have to start looking about elsewhere

[russdev]

In theroy while they get rid your job they can redefine your job but to certain degree you need to starting talking to your union asap about it.......

 

Russ

[Gatt]

There is a 6 week consultation period now, but yeah plan to talk to the union rep tomorrow as soon as i can - though i think there will be a queue at his door!

[Roberto]

Don't like the sound of this as there is already an ICT Network Manager there..

 

Think I may have to start looking about elsewhere

 

Bad news, I know but they might be just as worried about this as you are - maybe it's you who'll end up with that one job?

[Face-Man]

well we may all be in a similar boat soon. The governments latest thinking is a program BSF "building schools for the future". As part of the requirements for schools/LEAs to tap into the funding (several billion pounds I believe) is that school ICT support is provided via a managed service. They think that it is the only way to garentee quaility but from what I've seen it will just drag everyones flexibility and inavation down. 8O

 

As for your personal problem if the merger is in 4-5 years time the chances are they will need twice the ICT support they have at present anyway. Thinking back to 5 years ago here we had about 1/4 of the resorces we look after now and I'm sure that it will continue to expand.

[russdev]

On that notes might be worth talking to ict support at other school and having meeting...

 

Maybe ask what plans are in terms of ict equipment etc is for new school as point is if merge two schools ict will increase so in theory new place will need just as many staff to look after it.

 

so your job role may change and this si where start to need to multiskill if you want to keep current role then start managing talk to head about issues, equipment how this is working etc get noticed...

 

If role that would like to do suggest this to head say want to web development role then say so.

 

Starting talking and being noticed is the key...

[broc]

See if you can establish if they are really going to merge the two schools or close one and move the kids. At least here in the NE there seem to be different 'rules' for determining how staff get treated in the two different scenarios.

 

When two schools were merged, all staff from both schools were 'invited' to apply for their job at the new school. Where more than one candidate existed there were interviews etc and the best candidate got the job.

 

By contrast, where one school was being closed & the students moved, staff at the school being closed were made redundant, assuming they stuck around long enough that is!

 

No guarantee that this is the case where you are of course.

 

Good luck.

[beeswax]

Had our meeting on Tuesday. 2000 excess places in schools so 2 are to be merged and one closed completely. fortune

ately told we were one of the schools to be rebuilt possibly starting 2010. I agree these are worrying times for some. We were told there would be no forced redundancies, how they'll manage that I don't know, tho' some of the older staff have thought of applying for positions in the schools needing to close/merge with a view to being offered early retirement.

Have to agree with Russ, the term value added comes to mind.

At the same time as all this the council is running its job evaluation programme and we (the techies) got ours on Monday. It seems we are not required to handle sensitive data (so that's SIMS out the window), or plan ahead, or learn new skills, though it does involve a small amount of thinking. From what I gather the process is called a Question Trace, and they ask a "representative sample" of techies in the borough an opening question, then how you answer that governs which branch of questioning you're taken down.

[Gatt]

@broc: They are closing both schools and re-opening as a new school with a capacity of 1500

Now Moorside has an approx capacity of 1200 - not sure what Swinton High's is but its prob about the same

So in effect - 1 school is getting closed.

[broc]

Simply closing both schools means potentially making all staff redundant = very expensive. Don't be too surprised if they change their minds about the mechanism they use to achieve their goal once they look at the costs & when the local community interests kick in.

 

Wait until local councillors start to get flack from their voters then all sorts of political games get played too.

[CyberNerd]

fortune

ately told we were one of the schools to be rebuilt possibly starting 2010.

 

this a BSF thing?

[Gatt]

Spoke to Union rep today - who advised not to worry about this just yet - as the "Consultation Period" could take up to a year - depending on how many parents complain and how the unions reacts, though he did say that the only people guarunteed jobs are the teachers!!

[beeswax]

fortune

ately told we were one of the schools to be rebuilt possibly starting 2010.

 

this a BSF thing?

 

Yes it is. We (the techies) may well be out on our ears in a few years time, or tuped(?) though I don't think so. There is a teacher here who used to work in a secondary school where all the IT support was contracted out, his tales about that are our best ammunition with the head, who, to be fair, has said he'll fight to keep us. I judge him to be honest in this.

As for the only jobs guaranteed being the teachers', all those just over 50 at our school have said they will apply for posts at the closing or merging schools in order to be offered early retirement (there'll be no compulsory redundancies - among teachers at least).

[CyberNerd]

Yes it is. We (the techies) may well be out on our ears in a few years time, or tuped(?) though I don't think so.

 

Companies tend to prefer secondment as it makes it easier to change workers roles, reduce pay or sack them - tupe protects workers rights more than secondment (said a unison person).

 

There is a teacher here who used to work in a secondary school where all the IT support was contracted out, his tales about that are our best ammunition with the head, who, to be fair, has said he'll fight to keep us. I judge him to be honest in this.

 

No matter how bad it sounds from a teachers/learners/support staff p.o.v this thing is going ahead. Private money sounds good to the government, and outsourcing ICT to big business is a major part of this strategy. It sucks, and I really don't like it, but TBH we all know its cheaper to run a large farm of centralised servers than for all of us to provide a tailored service to meet our local schools requirements.

[CyberNerd]

If the LEA hasn't actually decided about what to do with IT staff you'll need more info on their consultations. You should make sure your unison rep has searched for as much information as possible (consultation documents/ feesibility studies etc.)

Use the 'Freedom of Information Act' and where that fails the 'Information and Consultations Act'. IANAL but the law says even confidential documents can be requested (within 28days IIRC) to an employee representative providing the outcome of the documents could have an impact on the workforce. Check Unison have done this. It might help.

[beeswax]

Support staff had a meeting with the person from the council responsible for our job evaluations this afternoon, and it was admitted that they didn't really know what our jobs entailed, so we're going to have new evaluations sent out. Our council did what they call a question trace with selected people from various schools in different support jobs. The "trace" means that all the following questions in a section depend on how you answered the first one. Sadly they wouldn't tell us the name of the individual who did this on "behalf" of the IT Technicians, as this post may then have been advertising a vacancy (or two). They (the council rep) all but admitted that those questioned for the most part worked in the primary sector (no offence intended), and the upshot is that almost everyone is going to have a new job evaluation done, and maybe I'll get a chance to do the question trace.

I'll give you a flavour of the questions, and the answers submitted,

"Is the jobholder required to develop any plans for actions, activities or events which are to happen some time in the future?"

and,

"Is the jobholder ever subject to unavoidable interruptions which make it difficult to complete the job duties?"

The answer given to the first is NO, and the answer given to the second is NO, RARELY IF EVER.

And on this are our job evaluations built.

For those who haven't gone through this process yet, and I shouldn't think there are that many, we were divided into 3 categories, those who took up their posts after the evaluation began, those in "unique" posts, jobs that no one else does (apparently NM's come into this category), and the large middle ground, taking in everyone else. After today's meeting, the unique category has grown and the middle ground has shrunk considerably. It's all got to be sorted by next April, though.

When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.

We were told that when the eventual final job evaluations and attached grades are handed out, not to expect the new grade/pay scale to match the old one. My (highly coloured) view is that if our salaries can be reduced now it will make us more attractive to "tupe" or port, into private companies.

If this is not coherent, don't blame me, as I'm only expected to use a keyboard infrequently.

[beeswax]

something to add from the meeting,

"how come someone doing this job in a primary school is on the same grade as those in a secondary?"

"It's not about how much work you do, it's about job skills."

"So how come the head of our 1250 pupil secondary school gets 4 times as much as the head of the 240 pupil primary down the road?"

I'd like some answers to that conundrum.

[russdev]

Just a slight bit of advice if want to keep current wage it is possable but to do it and this is going to link into another thread you have to stop being just a network manager and become educational technologist if you can show the skills and your presence is worth it.

 

Head can ask from day your new wage take effect (by way it will be protected for 3 years) that you are moved up to grade that is equal to your old wage so in effect you are given pay rise to make up for lost.

 

Talk to your head now and say why they should etc provide proof etc and then be honest and say that cant afford to get wage decrease and will be looking for a new job...

 

As wages are down to school to decide who gets what etc??

 

Russell

[CyberNerd]

When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.

 

I'd urge anybody who is not in the immediate wave of BSF to get their unions involved *now* so that we are better prepared. All we know for sure is that teachers jobs are protected.

 

Our LEA has become a bit cagey about BSF - A unison friend of mine recently asked for all our LEA's documentation regarding BSF under the freedom of information act (it shows what consultation, if any they have done). She was phoned back by a council lawyer asking her to drop the request - it clearly touched a raw nerve with the Council (bearing in mind she does a lot of this sort of thing in her job and has never had a responce like this).

[russdev]

When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.

 

I'd urge anybody who is not in the immediate wave of BSF to get their unions involved *now* so that we are better prepared. All we know for sure is that teachers jobs are protected.

 

Our LEA has become a bit cagey about BSF - A unison friend of mine recently asked for all our LEA's documentation regarding BSF under the freedom of information act (it shows what consultation, if any they have done). She was phoned back by a council lawyer asking her to drop the request - it clearly touched a raw nerve with the Council (bearing in mind she does a lot of this sort of thing in her job and has never had a responce like this).

 

oh dear.....

 

if I was her then I would ask a friendly journo to request it

 

hmm what lea is this maybe edugeek should request it

 

 

 

Russ

[CyberNerd]

oh dear.....

 

if I was her then I would ask a friendly journo to request it Smile

 

hmm what lea is this maybe edugeek should request it Smile

 

Thanks for the offer, I'm on their case and will of course keep you all posted

They've not refused to give the documentation - that would be illegal.

I think it would be a good time for *all* edugeek members to start asking questions about exactly what our respective LEA's have in mind for us. Probably your heads/SMT won't know too much (do they ever?). The LEA and UNISON are the people to approach. At least the LEA won't be able to give the 'too late' argument if we act now - even though the outcome (outsourcing) may still be the same.

[CyberNerd]

Support staff had a meeting with the person from the council responsible for our job evaluations this afternoon, and it was admitted that they didn't really know what our jobs entailed, so we're going to have new evaluations sent out. Our council did what they call a question trace with selected people from various schools in different support jobs. The "trace" means that all the following questions in a section depend on how you answered the first one. Sadly they wouldn't tell us the name of the individual who did this on "behalf" of the IT Technicians, as this post may then have been advertising a vacancy (or two). They (the council rep) all but admitted that those questioned for the most part worked in the primary sector (no offence intended), and the upshot is that almost everyone is going to have a new job evaluation done, and maybe I'll get a chance to do the question trace.

I'll give you a flavour of the questions, and the answers submitted,

"Is the jobholder required to develop any plans for actions, activities or events which are to happen some time in the future?"

and,

"Is the jobholder ever subject to unavoidable interruptions which make it difficult to complete the job duties?"

The answer given to the first is NO, and the answer given to the second is NO, RARELY IF EVER.

And on this are our job evaluations built.

For those who haven't gone through this process yet, and I shouldn't think there are that many, we were divided into 3 categories, those who took up their posts after the evaluation began, those in "unique" posts, jobs that no one else does (apparently NM's come into this category), and the large middle ground, taking in everyone else. After today's meeting, the unique category has grown and the middle ground has shrunk considerably. It's all got to be sorted by next April, though.

When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.

We were told that when the eventual final job evaluations and attached grades are handed out, not to expect the new grade/pay scale to match the old one. My (highly coloured) view is that if our salaries can be reduced now it will make us more attractive to "tupe" or port, into private companies.

If this is not coherent, don't blame me, as I'm only expected to use a keyboard infrequently.

 

I asked said union friend about this:

 

"This is all about the Equal Pay Act. Your employer is required to carry out an equal pay audit by Sept. '07. Employers usually do this by the way of job evaluation. Your job should have already been evaluated under an equality proof job evaluation scheme ie. NJC (national joint council) or HAY. You will know if this has been done because you will be on a pay and grading structure - ie is your post already graded into scales? Most employers started this process two or three years ago.

 

One of your "colleagues" has completed a job questionairre which will be used to evaluate the role. You have the right to appeal against the evaluation, ask your LEA for the appeals process. You can insist on completing a questionairre yourself. If you are a member of Unison speak to your rep or branch. Your employer has a duty to consult with your Union as this exercise will have an impact on the workforce. You or your branch should contact central Unison if they are having problems negotiating with your employer (you should if your branch is just being crap). Watch that some union reps are reputed to be in the pockets of the employers (cushy full time secondments etc). The "collegue" that did this evaluation is trying to reduce your pay, your employer (collegue) is clearly trying to make your department attractive for out-sourcing. Private companies will not want to run a service that has a high wage bill.

The downside of a high wage bill (for the LEA) is that redundancy is more likely. Ask the LEA human resorces depatment for the redundancy, redeployment and employment stability policies."

 

Head can ask from day your new wage take effect (by way it will be protected for 3 years) that you are moved up to grade that is equal to your old wage so in effect you are given pay rise to make up for lost.

 

Pay protection is negotiated. It is not mandatory. There are also equal pay issues surrounding pay protection. check ACAS guidelines.

[GrumbleDook]

Also be aware that if your school is a Foundation School, or is not governed by the LA on HR / pay matters then you must follow the appeals procedure as set down and ratified by your governing body.

 

Again ... your union rep will give you advice, and remember that if you are unsure about your local rep then got to your area rep instead.

[MkII]

Very interesting Beeswax. Apparently our Job Eval is almost done and our Union guy tells me it's looking quite good for us techies. I can see that might mean some could go for appeals to get the poposed grade they're worth.

 

Also, it seems like our grades are very similar to local authority posts in IT, starting at the pay scale for desktop support and up to the top of network support guys. What us techs thought should be the case when we last discussed this 6 months ago.

[broc]

There are storm clouds gathering over salary protection. There is at least one LA near me that implemented single status with salary protection who are now facing litigation.

 

They have now been legally challenged about the protection. As I understand it, the test case centres round 2 people doing the same job, one who was in post prior to job evaluation, one who came later. they are both on the same scale, except one is getting salary protection, the other not. I don't know what the legal argument is, but I know it has scared a few nearby LAs who look like they are now attempting to back out of salary protection commitments negotiated with the unions.