witch Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 So is matt40k and kmount's solution the same as kyle williamsons? I'm not sure if I need to add another IP to the server (where would I get this?) or get another DNS hostname? This learning curve is becoming a bit Everest
matt40k Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Not sure kylewilliamson method would work. Basically IIS and Apache can't share the same port. Witch, is the server 2008? If you put a new server on the network, where would you get the IP address from?
jamesb Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Two websites can't share the same IP address and port. It causes fun stuff to happen. However they can have different IP addresses and the same port, or different ports and the same IP address. Just trying to clarify as I think poor witch is getting a bit boggled. So adding another IP address will let you put the moodle site on that (new) address, and on port 80. You'll then need to get any requests for the moodle site going to that IP address by getting a DNS record set up to point at it. That's probably the simplest way to do it, and it avoids having to move to IIS where you'd still need to add another IP address.
kmount Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Two websites can't share the same IP address and port. It causes fun stuff to happen. Two websites can, two webservers can't though. I agree, the easiest solution would be to add an additional IP address, tell apache to use that one, tell IIS to use the old one.
witch Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 You are all saying different things again! Yes we are moving to Server 2008 and presumably will use the same IP address as the current server - we only have one, and will continue to only have one! So, basically I need a new IP address and tell apache to use that one for moodle, and IIS to use the old one for the website.... How do I get a new IP address? (obviously we have a range -can I just pick an unused one?) Do I need the DNS bit? Please can I have EXACT instructions on how to set up the system so that this will work. Words of one syllable please guys, with instructions on how to find the various bits I need written out step by step with no bits left out. Frightened of breaking my bosses new lovely Moodle site? Me? Never!
kmount Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Hey, In steps. 1) You need a second internal IP which I'm guessing you can allocate yourself, that's the one you'll add to the server directly. We can help with that seperately. 2) You'll need to contact your ISP to assign a new public ip mapping to your internal IP. 3) You'll need a subdomain created for your moodle that's different to the existing one which will remain pointed to IIS. They will ask what IP they're pointing it to which is the one you obtained from your ISP above. 4) You're done with a bit of luck. 1
matt40k Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 You are all saying different things again! Sorry Yes we are moving to Server 2008 and presumably will use the same IP address as the current server - we only have one, and will continue to only have one! Server 2008 IIS includes PHP, so you can just install Moodle. I think... ignore this. So, basically I need a new IP address and tell apache to use that one for moodle, and IIS to use the old one for the website.... Correct How do I get a new IP address? (obviously we have a range -can I just pick an unused one?) Yes Do I need the DNS bit yes, you'll need to point the (sub)domain name you want to the moodle ip Please can I have EXACT instructions on how to set up the system so that this will work. Words of one syllable please guys, with instructions on how to find the various bits I need written out step by step with no bits left out. I'll let someone else do this... Frightened of breaking my bosses new lovely Moodle site? Me? Never! That makes you a good technican. 1
jamesb Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) To get a new IP address just pick an unused one which you can assign as static (i.e. one which your DHCP server has listed as an exclusion, so it won't assign it out). Go into the properties of the server's NIC, properties of the TCP/IP protocol, Advanced settings and add the new IP address to the existing one. Set up the moodle site to listen on that address and test it by typing in the IP address. (Alternatively for testing purposes set up another IIS site just with a blank or test page, then assign that the second IP address, you can reconfigure the moodle site once you've got the DNS set up and know its working). Then have a word with whoever holds your DNS records to get them to add one, pointing to the correct address. You'll want it to redirect something like moodle.schoolsite.com rather than schoolsite.com. Setting up two records for the same address is going to confuse things, as your system won't know which one people are trying to get to. It may be that you just have one external IP address, in which case you'll need to get routing set up as well. For the DNS and the routing you'll need to speak to whoever provides them for you. You can also test it internally to start with by putting in a DNS record for your test site, pointing to the new IP address for moodle.schoolsite.com and one pointing to the old address for schoolsite.com. Edited June 26, 2009 by jamesb Taking out actual links to schoolsite. 1
witch Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 Hmmm...we do have only one external address - who would set up the routing? If I want to do it now on our Server 2000 - do I need to install PHP?
matt40k Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 If I want to do it now on our Server 2000 - do I need to install PHP? Installation for Windows 2003 with IIS - MoodleDocs
witch Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 Installation for Windows 2003 with IIS - MoodleDocs It is 2000, not 2003 I already have Moodle running using Apache. I am so confused I would delete the lot and start again now I understand the implications of IIS, Apache, and everything else... BUT the boss has put a load of content on and if I deleted it...well, there wouldn't be much of me left after he saw what I had done.
jamesb Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 The routing would probably be done by your ISP, or whoever provides that external IP address for you. This may be the LA or a private company. All they should need is the new IP address to route to, and the address that people would be using for the new site. So as an example, if your current site were on 10.0.0.1 internally with an address of oldsite.stuff , and you put the new site on 10.0.0.2 with an address of moodle.oldsite.stuff, they should be able to set up the routing so that anyone trying to access the new address would simply be bounced to 10.0.0.2 instead of 10.0.0.1. Take it a step at a time, and grab a cup of tea first. Its not as complex as we're making it sound by a long shot. So, step 1 - set up a second static IP address on the server Step 2 - set up a test site in IIS and assign the new IP address to it. Assign the old site the original IP address (can all be done in IIS manager by going in to website properties and setting the IP address). Step 3 - test it, then speak to the relevant people to get DNS and so on set up so you can check whether the new URL works, that way you can avoid downtime and make sure its all going to work beforehand. Step 4 - once its all done and working tell Apache to listen on the new IP address, on port 80. Step 5 - make a new cup of tea. 2
witch Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 OK - I will look at this and have a go. Next question - when we move to Server 2008, and I reinstall Moodle, what do I do then? Do I install it on IIS (is there documentation?) and if I do, what do I do then about the IP addresses, DNS names and such - will I still need them? or can IIS on Server 2008 differentiate between different sites in some clever way?. It is all a bit less foggy than it was - but the shapes are only now beginning to emerge from the darkness!! It is really kind of you all to take the time to help me and I am very grateful
jamesb Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Unless you want to start playing around with host headers (its not worth it, trust me) you'll need the second IP address still, and the routing in place. All you'll need to do though is set whichever system you want to use it up to listen on the appropriate IP address. Incidentally if this makes no sense let me know. I've just got back from the pub and may not be making too much sense. I can try and translate tomorrow.
kylewilliamson Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 I went with that view on the basis that getting a second external IP from some RBCs can be a pig...
Jamo Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 It seems awfully complicated!! With apache (I know we are IIS here) you can set up Vhosts which allow you to host multiple sites on one IP. Using a wildcard (*.webaddress.com) forwarding to my host IP I could set Moodle.website.com http://www.website.com anything.website.com up as the domain was still forwarded to my machine. Surely there is a way to do this under IIS!!
witch Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Sorry, what is a host header? I have emailed the provider (SWGfL) but have had no reply. Anything that doesn't involve them would be good
jamesb Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 HOW TO: Use Host Header Names to Host Multiple Sites from One IP Address in IIS 5.0 - Using host headers in IIS Name-based Virtual Hosts - Using virtual hosts in Apache Basically instead of using different IP addresses or ports you really on the HTTP header included by the browser including the appropriate name for each site.
projector1 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 PcPro have been running a series on how to install moodle on a server 2008 box. Any one interested, just pm for the article
witch Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) And today's problem is: The company installing our new server etc insist that they want to use the host header method of installing moodle on IIS. Can someone please give me a definitive answer as to what I have to ask our provider (SWGfL) for? I really don't know what it is I'm asking about. PLEASE don't go on about host headers being the wrong route, that's what they want to do and I don't have the time or expertise to do it myself so we will have to go with it. I also need someone to confirm exactly what I need to copy and where it is so that current content isn't lost. Wish I'd never heard of s****ing VLEs Edited July 1, 2009 by witch
jamesb Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 If its being set up with a host header, you shouldn't need to ask SWGfL for anything as far as I know. Basically what'll happen (I imagine) is that you'll have say www.domain.com as your standard domain and moodle.domain.com as your moodle site. Whichever one people try and browse will redirect them to the same IP address (I'm assuming both sites will be on the same server/IP/port). The web server itself will then figure out which site's been requested and deal with all of the other details. The only thing you may need to ask SWGfL for is a DNS record for your moodle site, but if you've already got the school domain you shouldn't need it. 1
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