synaesthesia Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Having MAJOR issues getting this thing to behave properly on either CC3 or CC4 networks and wondered if anyone had any experience. After much pratting around and MLS's escalation team remoting in, we managed to get it working fully with exception of the Identikit (fingerprint scanner, USB). The scanner works (picks up instantly in Junior 3) and drivers are present and I've updated them. Sometimes it'll pick up when in systemadmin, other times it wont. It wont pick up at all in any normal user account. Idea is, on the "grown ups" section, clicking "identikit" should fire up the lights on the scanner and away you go. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt. MLS's information is basically all about unblocking it's communication port (6002) which is done. It makes no difference whether we log into EMBC or not for the web filtering, and I can pretty much run it completely unrestricted and it sometimes doesnt work :/ Anyone have any clues about this? :| Very close to throwing it out, getting a deserved refund from MLS and going back to JL3. Wouldn't mind but MLS actually phoned during all this asking if they could use this school as a recommendation! (Er, No!)
bertster Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 I have the same problems at a school running Junior Librarian.net and Ranger. Identikit comes and goes without reason so borrow and return doesnt work. MLS tried remote access but couldnt solve the problem although said that they thought IE8 was a possible cause (apparently they have not tested it on IE8!). MLS help desk was closed/ unavailable wednesday & thursday last week and dispite several voicemails being left they have still yet to respond. School is chasing MLS for a refund but as they are not answering the phone.... they are left with a system that doesnt work. Back to version 3 for them I'm afraid, until MLS can get their act together. 1
sted Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 2 schools i support on a plain vanilla networks are having issues one is just slow as f (but their infrasctucture seems to be that problem damn baddly setup sisko crap with no gb ports for server/uplinks give me hp everytime) and the other just keeps saying you need to upgrade your plugin and when you do its the same version. One school is using ie8 the other isnt. JL3 was so much less hastle 1
synaesthesia Posted June 9, 2009 Author Posted June 9, 2009 Glad I'm not alone there. Thinking that a refund will be the way to go here, I just don't think it's fit for purpose.
Michael Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 I've not actually seen or used Junior Librarian.NET but I am surprised you're all having so many problems. Their Junior Librarian 3 software is first class. Easy to setup and just works. Probably one of the better education software titles I've had to install. I would of thought Junior Librarian.NET would be the same, but just accessible within a browser? From what you're all describing, it sounds as though partly they may have a hosting issue.
sted Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 I've not actually seen or used Junior Librarian.NET but I am surprised you're all having so many problems. Their Junior Librarian 3 software is first class. Easy to setup and just works. Probably one of the better education software titles I've had to install. I would of thought Junior Librarian.NET would be the same, but just accessible within a browser? From what you're all describing, it sounds as though partly they may have a hosting issue. na its annoying if you want to use the bar code scanner/fingerprint scanner you need to install a plug-in that wont msi out and the main download then triggers 3 other downloads and a reboot. If you want kids to do reviews etc at home you have to create accounts for them the earlier version had an ad import that im told no longer works so you have to manually create a username for every user. its poorly planned and seems to of been rushed if this was a beta version for testing it wouldn't be bad but i wouldn't recommend anyone changes from jl3 for it they even told the librarian in the school i was in today they have no system for centrally locating faults and solutions which if true is shocking and even so why on earth would you tell a customer that?
Michael Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Having to install a plugin manually on each machine would be tedious I agree. I presume you've asked or recommended an MSI is made available? They did create an MSI for the updated Junior 3 client 3.2.2.25 which works just fine, so I see little reason why they cannot do it for the .NET version (for the plugin).
synaesthesia Posted June 9, 2009 Author Posted June 9, 2009 Moot point I'm afraid - it's a local install. Junior 3 (which I agree is a very decent bit of software) works easily as a package (although I'd appreciate any tips on getting it to run at all with CC4) however I tend to keep them as separate installs to ease up on the security settings a tad. That should make it easier for JL.NET, however alas it's not to be. The plugin issue, the performance etc, just feels like they were trying to save time coding on top of templates (ala Silverlight) rather than building an application from scratch. Corners cut, usage compromised.
Michael Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 I have it working on one RM CC3 network I support and I know Micro Librarian provide documentation. If you download the ISO from the Micro Librarian website (requires a login), burn the ISO and standard/CC3 documentation and MSI's are provided on the disc. I can't imagine it should be any different on a CC4 network. The database would/should still be held centrally on your file server with just the client on workstations pushed out by an RM'ed MSI. 1
synaesthesia Posted June 10, 2009 Author Posted June 10, 2009 Yeah, but this is junior librarian.net im talking about, which is all hosted by MLS (on a 56k modem, so it feels) Definitely a glutton for punishment. Turned up at one of my weekly schools today, to find an email printed and stuck to my notice board. An email from MLS "Welcome to Junior Librarian.NET, please find enclosed your login details and instructions". Impulse buy, apparently Amusingly, the machine that runs JL3 is a Pentium 3 800mhz with 256mb ram. I will *not* be installing IE7 on that, let alone Silverlight, the .NET framework stuff etc Will commandeer a better machine from the IT suite, kill off CC3 and route it through the admin network to avoid the hassle
Michael Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Definitely a glutton for punishment. Turned up at one of my weekly schools today, to find an email printed and stuck to my notice board. An email from MLS "Welcome to Junior Librarian.NET, please find enclosed your login details and instructions". Impulse buy, apparently I'm surprised you weren't asked about it before they purchased it. Personally I would recommend you tell them of your experiences, otherwise inevitably you will run into the same problems. I was asked about it at one of my sites a long time ago and I did tell them to hold fire because it was still very new. The overall cost of JL.NET is much more expensive (I suspect due to the hosting costs), so I really don't see the point. Now that I know of your experiences and others, I won't be recommending it in the short term. My work schedule is busy enough as it is!
sted Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I'm surprised you weren't asked about it before they purchased it. Personally I would recommend you tell them of your experiences, otherwise inevitably you will run into the same problems. I was asked about it at one of my sites a long time ago and I did tell them to hold fire because it was still very new. i often find software just turns up without me knowing anything about it and at times pcs too nobody mentions it and expects you to install 10 pcs in 2.5 hours lol
Michael Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 i often find software just turns up without me knowing anything about it and at times pcs too nobody mentions it and expects you to install 10 pcs in 2.5 hours lol Don't get me wrong, it has happened to me too, but JL.NET is quite an investment.
synaesthesia Posted June 10, 2009 Author Posted June 10, 2009 Yeah, thats exactly what I'd have expected. Impulse buy though from the head, says he won't be doing it again
smegbrains Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I have had this purchased, signed for and then dropped on my desk with no warning, not impressed! Tried it out on our library PC, (an aging P4 with 256Mb ram that has nothing but XP and Junior Librarian 3 on it and handles that just fine.) It was... horrendous. REALLY slow, very unresponsive and just looks too confusing. Even I was searching for appropriate options on the hugely distracting screen full of animations, no idea what the kids and staff will make of it. My major concern; aside from pupil data being held on a third party server which I have no control over, is that in order to upload said pupil data, I need to do it over plain HTTP. There is nothing more than Name, Class and Year, but heads have rolled for less. This is a SEN school as well; much stricter controls on data due to extra sensitivity. Strangely, they have managed to get the actual library site running fine over HTTPS. Oh and the other option to send them data... via post on a CD... I'm sure we all remember what happened the last time someone sent unencrypted kids data via Royal Mail. Haven't contacted MLS yet, but I'm not happy so far. I really hope this isn't going to turn out to be a waste of the school's money. I'll be expecting answers to my worries! 1
synaesthesia Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 They're getting used to issuing refunds, so don't panic too much I didn't realise the data transfer was via plain HTTP, not good. Unlikely much will happen, but then again it's also unlikely things go missing in the post as you say It happens. Rather annoyed with it still on the "if it aint broke, why fix it" thing. JL3 was just fine really. Another one of my schools had it set up and finalised today, and I set about getting it working on CC4. Added a couple of trusted sites, even found out how to set a very specific custom sites IE option set in the registry, packaged Silverlight etc, fine; and when it came to packaging the IE plugins - it threw a HUGE wobbly. So, yet again and so typically it's sitting on another standalone box until I get the time to fanny about with it some more. On the positive side, it'll run mostly fine without the browser helper object installed (and hardware support isn't needed on the client systems)
smegbrains Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Yeah it's unlikely anything will go wrong but I'm not risking it! Especially as our Information Management Unit has issued us with guidelines about transmission of pupil data, unencrypted channels are very much a nono. It's a great bit of sensibility from the LEA. Email was sent to MLS, see if they reply. I'll let you know on here what the result is as I'm sure you'll appreciate it being on HTTPS. I'm right with you on the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" thing, it's rare I find educational software that just works and does exactly what it should, and JL3 was one of those rare finds. This new one is not.
rayvon Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I'm struggling installing JL3 as we've just moved to CC4. Used to be fine on a stand alone laptop, but tried just getting it working (for now) on one CC4 machine as a staff user, however getting Eclipse2 ActiveX error. The school have been using it for a while, but I've just logged into the MLS user area and found we don't have a help-desk subscription so therefore can't get the MSI I need. I assume the support is on an annual basis, anybody know rough cost of the helpdesk support?
synaesthesia Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 Not off hand. JL3 on CC4 is fairly fruitless I'm afraid. One of my schools, during a CC4 upgrade wisely elected to keep the JL3 machine on CC3, which works rather well. I'm still experimenting with getting it running on CC4 but time is disallowing currently. If I do have some success I'll be sure to let you know, and it'll be appreciated if you could do the same should you beat me to it
synaesthesia Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 Finally got somewhere today. Ended up making a "special" account, giving pretty much full administrative rights but hiding it (hiding access to the local hard drive, limiting access to internet options etc) as opposed to disabling everything. Even so, I've suggested this account is only used when supervised, and still I can't understand why it fails to work with the IDK in a limited account with all the below settings verified and access allowed to the path of the local print database. Ensured port 6002 (local biometric server, data of which is stored locally as an sql database) was open For some reason, even though "bypass proxy for all local addresses" was ticked, it had no effect until I had manually put "localhost" in the exception list. Added *.juniorlibrarian.net to trusted sites Then found that the identikit fingerprint database wasn't actually storing anything. Register my prints and the DB doesnt increase in size, nor would it recognise my prints afterwards. Stopping the biometric service, deleting the database file and restarting appeared to solve this, indicating a problem with the importing program they had provided. Plus of course it's now lost the entire database of 'prints, so all the children need to be re-registered again. Interestingly I had spent just over an hour and a quarter on the phone to MLS going through as many options as possible. The chap logged into the schools site from there and even he was shocked at the speed, indicating yet further issues deeper into their system than first suspected. Again, I can't express enough how good the MLS support has been - I've always been impressed, but this latest product has been causing so many headaches it doesn't seem right. But, we seem to be getting there. If I can get the plugins to package or just work on CC4 now I'll be very happy indeed (I will however be leaving that until we SR1 it next week) 1
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