Registered workers ONLY (schools + companies) forums?

[mb2k01]

I'm convinced I've read this being touched on in another thread but despite hefty searches can't find it!

 

Would it be possible to create a secure area (in terms of who can view / submit, not in terms of SSL) that ONLY users who have been confirmed as working in schools, or working in registered companies could enter, view and submit messages?

Thinking more technically, would it be possible to develop a system where existing forums are still used but are unaccessible to unverified users?

 

Obviously this facility would require additional administrative effort (for which I'm more than willing to volunteer!), but the system would allow users the peace of mind when posting messages.

The worst case scenario would see users have to email / fax to have their position verified (which again, I'd volunteer to assist with), but I'm sure this could be adapted and made easier if we pooled ideas?

 

The concept might be viewed as slightly controversial as one could argue that EduGeek's popularity is partly based on the fact that anyone can (and does) contribute, which I wouldn't want to stop. Having a separate secure area that users could choose to post to as an alternative to the public areas would allow the users to make informed choices about who they wanted to see their messages - and generally increasing user choice leads to positives!

 

What do others think?

[dwhyte85]

I'm sure they could do it but... imagine the administration involved, maybe by e-mail address they could automate it, we'd all need to sign up with our school e-mails, have an extra field in our profile and an automated clickable link is sent to confirm the address - could be a bit of a tough one to administer.

 

If i leave my job in 2 weeks, i'd still have access with my method above, it'd have to be e-mails sent every few months:confused:

[leco]

Leaving the administration aside for a moment, though I realise that it is an important factor. I think such an area would give a certain amount of credence to posts, if I was sure that they came from people in a similar situation. From people who are aware of the constraints and/or environment within which we work, not just the technological side.

[elsiegee40]

I really cannot think of situations where I would want to post so that only people employed in the education sector can see what I've said.

 

The issues we discuss are pertinent to IT and schools... you get little protection (whatever that may be) from restricting thread views to education employees... if it's something risky that you need to say, maybe it shouldn't be said here.

 

Your job is probably more at risk from other education employees (and sadly this has happened in the last 12 months) who identify you from your posting than from those outside the sector.

 

I can't say that pre-approved membership appeals at all... and that's before thinking of the costs involved.

[markcuk]

Here we go again:mad:

 

Imagine people not in the UK having to fax someone or whatever just to prove they work in a school.

 

This site as just been advertised in a New Zealand computer magazine as a open forum for anyone.

 

If you are worried about someone from your school reading something you post maybe you should sort that issue out first.

 

mark

[leco]

The issues we discuss are pertinent to IT and schools... you get little protection (whatever that may be) from restricting thread views to education employees... if it's something risky that you need to say, maybe it shouldn't be said here.

 

Your job is probably more at risk from other education employees (and sadly this has happened in the last 12 months) who identify you from your posting than from those outside the sector.

 

I wasn't really thinking about security, nor being recognised, though I agree it is sad if jobs have been put at risk through posting. I was thinking more in terms of procedures and policies, physical (or virtual) resources not to mention budgets.

[elsiegee40]

I wasn't really thinking about security, nor being recognised, though I agree it is sad if jobs have been put at risk through posting. I was thinking more in terms of procedures and policies, physical (or virtual) resources not to mention budgets.

 

 

 

Why does working in a school make a difference here?

 

Procedure and policies do differ a little in schools as there are child-protection issues in addition to the usual data-protection ones. However, people not currently employed in schools may have equally valid opinions and lengthy experience, perhaps having previously worked in a school or with young people.

 

As for budgeting, these issues apply in every buiness whether schools or not, across the world. At private schools we have a slightly different set of budgetary challenges (start with having to pay VAT), but that doesn't mean our opinions or suggestions are any less useful.

 

I build my opinions on other posters based on 'getting to know them' around these boards. You rapidly pick who's an expert in what area. (Got a legalistic problem - get Grumbledook in! )

 

If you follow this line of thought, you prevent US or NZ posters from posting on UK threads, because they don't know about the economy or education rules in the UK... total nonsense!

[leco]

Point taken elsiegee40, having the discussion brings out ideas that may not otherwise surface. I am obviously suffering from typing first and thinking second. Sorry.

[elsiegee40]

Point taken elsiegee40, having the discussion brings out ideas that may not otherwise surface. I am obviously suffering from typing first and thinking second. Sorry.

 

 

No offence taken. It's Saturday morning (well, in the Uk anyway! ) and we're having an open discussion between people on these boards. All opinions welcome, as long as they are polite!

[russdev]

To say we have visited this idea and we did look at it long and hard. Also we looked at some of the sites around like us that needed to prove you where in a school. I would say the names but none of them around anymore.

 

We made decision it just wouldn't work both on admin side and the fact it goes against ethos which DB created this site under which was a free & open site. This has always followed through to things we do like our events (all free etc).

 

But we did look at it etc and if members say we will look at it again.

 

Russ

[mb2k01]

Here we go again:mad:

 

Imagine people not in the UK having to fax someone or whatever just to prove they work in a school.

 

This site as just been advertised in a New Zealand computer magazine as a open forum for anyone.

 

If you are worried about someone from your school reading something you post maybe you should sort that issue out first.

 

mark

 

I'm surprised / saddened by the replies so far.

This post was put in the comments and suggestions area for a reason - it is purely a suggestion, and open to comments. I didn't think it would appear SO negative!

 

Mark,

I'm not suggesting that the main focus of the site should be changed and not allow anyone to join. It's the reason I joined in the first place which is probably the same for a large proportion of other members.

 

What I’m saying is, in my opinion, it would be nice to be able to post in an area that only verified users in similar roles to ourselves could contribute. Sometimes it would be entirely appropriate to wish to post something which you don't want current / ex-students (or ex-workers for that fact) to be able to see. All I'm suggesting is that 1) the functionality would be nice and 2) the creator of the thread might be able to have the option to choose themselves.

 

Your final sentence about being worried / sorting out issues is completely out of context (if aimed at me) and does not apply at all. I have never posted anything that I would be unwilling to say in any of my work environments. The only reason I stay reasonably anonymous is so that anyone with a specific negative agenda (perhaps a pupil wanting to know what technologies we use, or pinpoint any vulnerabilities we may have at some point) would be unable to find me easily.

 

If I may reply with an equally blunt, but entirely appropriate remark, I would suggest that in this wonderful public forum which you value so highly you perhaps consider the tone of your responses so as not to alienate the people you seek to assist or receive help from.

[elsiegee40]

MB2K01, the opinions differ from yours and this thread has opened a discussion. I wouldn't describe it as a negative thread. Without discussion, things don't move forward. It seems that, so far, perhaps people prefer things the way they are.

 

However, opinions from 5 members are hardly a representive sample of the 10k+ edugeekers... so who knows where this thread will go or what it will lead to!

[dwhyte85]

I guess the groups could be used to this effect if the group owners/administrators moderated?

 

I can see some use for it, although prior to starting at the school I wouldn't have been able to search the information i needed.

Edited April 25, 2009 by dwhyte85
forgot a bit

[mb2k01]

MB2K01, the opinions differ from yours and this thread has opened a discussion. I wouldn't describe it as a negative thread. Without discussion, things don't move forward. It seems that, so far, perhaps people prefer things the way they are.

 

However, opinions from 5 members are hardly a representive sample of the 10k+ edugeekers... so who knows where this thread will go or what it will lead to!

 

Agreed!

 

No offence taken. It's Saturday morning (well, in the Uk anyway! ) and we're having an open discussion between people on these boards. All opinions welcome, as long as they are polite!

 

Also agreed! This is kind of what I was getting at in my previous post in response to Mark.

I welcome discussion, I welcome alternative opinions, I welcome disagreement. I don't welcome inpoliteness - there's never any need for it!

[SYNACK]

This has been discussed in depth here: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/general-chat/26949-verified-role-status-edugeek.html and as the discussion got heated the thread was locked.

 

Personally I am against this and will repost some of the reasons why from the other thread:

Just a word of caution for this, the more information that is collected the more chance there is for something to go wrong. Members have already had to quit the forum because their details got out. Its not that I don't trust the site or the people who run it or anything like that but the mere presence of the data increases the danger.

 

There have already been attempts to hack the site - admittedly to use it a a proxy - and this would make it an even more tempting and valuable target. The other thing is that all it would take would be one weak link in the system to cause trouble, one volunteer checker with a grudge or compromised email for all hell to break loose.

 

I think that although it could be useful it would cause a large administrative burden and put a lot more of a burden on the site than anyone has predicted.

 

There is also a strange sense of security that comes with being anonymous that enables people to participate that otherwise may not be able to. The demonizing of students is also a dangerous path as there may well be be students that are able to provide value to the forum. The forum came along after I had left school but if it had been around back then it would have been useful to me and I could have been useful to it as I was in fact supporting some school computers. Drawing lines is sometimes necessary but it should be considered very carefully.

 

I agree fully with markcuk that this kind of move would affect the welcoming image of the site community which can already be a little 'cold' for international visitors* and will limit the amount of participation further. This kind of move would be more likely to cause cliques and break down the group dynamic. You would also leave yourself open to attacks from the groupthink monster which may heavily constrain the amount of new ideas that you are exposed to. This would also involve putting your faith entirely in the system to protect you which could be dangerous if it was ever circumvented.

 

Additionally in my opinion at least I don't think that markcuk was being rude, just coveying his opinion in an emotive way which is understandable as it effectly locks out many of us from continuing to participate in the forum as a whole.

 

A simmilar idea that may give you some of the features that you are after would be friend limited discussions where your posts were limited to those people that you had added as friends and trust on an individual basis. This would be quite heavy on the server though and so there would need to be a big benifit to justify its implementation.

 

You could also start your own group and restrict joining with the existing system, you could then apply whatever criteria to joining you wanted and have your discussions in there but I have to say that that would be rather anti-social.

 

Anyhow, these are just my opinions and are not intended to be inpolite.

 

* by this I mean the welcome threads for other countries which are left abandoned by the vast majority.

[elsiegee40]

...be a little 'cold' for international visitors

 

 

for SYNACK and all the other international visitors...

 

...the welcome threads for other countries which are left abandoned by the vast majority

 

As for the international welcome threads...

 

Personally, I'm not sure we should have these. The main welcome thread was used by all regardless of nationality. While I respond, I can understand why others do not as they are uncertain about whether they should be posting on region specific boards not applicable to them. It seems more like a place for people from that region to find each other.

 

However this is OT, so don't everyone else get arguing in this thread about that too!

[alan-d]

Here's a thought to add to the fire

 

I see that there are a lot of valid arguments against a secure area but there will always be a call from some to have a secure area to discuss issues that they would not like just anyone to view such as difficulties with management or work colleges. Equally they would like to vent steam with colleagues in a similar working environment without running the risk of a particular area of the population either being offended or use the post against the individual.

 

It could also be used for local consortium's to discuss local issues etc.

 

So here's the thought! Why not have a personal subscription membership? OK it won't stop all of the above but it will stop the casual viewer or potential trouble maker from reading something that they either shouldn't see or use against a member.

 

The monies raised could either go toward running the site or put to a charity.

 

Personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the way things are but I have to admit that there have been a few occasions where a secure site would have been useful !

[mb2k01]

Why not have a personal subscription membership? OK it won't stop all of the above but it will stop the casual viewer or potential trouble maker from reading something that they either shouldn't see or use against a member.

 

The monies raised could either go toward running the site or put to a charity.

 

Personally, for the most part, I'm happy with the way things are but I have to admit that there have been a few occasions where a secure site would have been useful !

 

Now there's a thought....

Even as a current supporter/donator I'd quite happily part with more ££'s if it was a way of having the facility. Of course, on the other hand, if it was only ever used by 2% of the total EduGeek population it would probably defeat the object!

 

Maybe we should find out 1) If it is theoretically/technically possible and 2) just how many people would be willing to pay?

[russdev]

Just info I am watching this thread with interest but want to let members voice their views before respond again.

 

Russ

[Andrew_C]

I'd not be particularly in favour of a forum for slaggin****** discussing colleagues; it isn't professional. I would support a restricted access are where "delicate" matters could be discussed more openly. ie security, pay, child protection issues etc. I fully accept that this couldn't ever be fully "safe", as we all know, dissembling on the 'net is so easy.

 

This could work as a "club" where once admitted, you continue to be trusted unless you demonstrate that this is misplaced. Thus, once you 'prove' to be employed in a school or legitimate supplier, you remain a member even if you move on to pastures new.

 

I also understand (first hand) how this could mean extra work for Admin & Mods.

[Guest richard_s]

I used to work in education and when I left I actually left the site as well. I even went as far as having my account removed as I felt that I didn't belong here due to various comments being made at the time of my leaving. These were not aimed at me but the sentiment was if you were not in education then you don't belong here.

 

When I rejoined I made the conscious decision not to post as much as I did in the past but to use the site as a place of reference.

[Andrew_C]

These were not aimed at me but the sentiment was if you were not in education then you don't belong here.

THAT'S FOAMING AT THE MOUTH, BARKING, MAD! We should all be prepared to learn, and help, anyone; just especially those in a similar boat to ours.

 

I do though fell that somewhere "not in front of the children" would be an asset.

[GrumbleDook]

I *love* meta-threads. People sometimes think change is bad and so the ideas should not be discussed, or just because it was discussed once and a decision was made it shouldn't be discussed again. I don't, and always think the status quo should be challenged.

 

Still ... my concern when I closed the thread previously was more about people arguing over points that were not really linked to the idea of keeping things secure and out of the 'wrong' hands ... but ventured into some level of elitism. Been there and done that in other places ... and it kills communities. I do think folks could make more use of Spark though ... or use Live messenger ... plenty of other ways of doing it.

 

Thinking about it though ... would you include LA staff in these forums? Especially if you are talking about stuff you are doing different to the prescribe way of doing things?

[TSCL]

Well trying to sponsor a forum on here is like pulling teeth so this would no doubt be even worse.

[PiqueABoo]

I'm reminded of the Orwellian ContactPoint DB - something like 400,000 people qualify to access that, so you may as well give up and make it public.

 

What's the "business case" for the proposal in this thread? Considering how many people would qualify, what would it actually achieve?