New server thoughts

[Jobos]

Looks like we have money for a new server this year so I wanted your thoughts on the server spec. Last year my other primary school replaced their only server with a Dell 2900 running Server 2003 and it runs quite nicely.

 

 

Dell PowerEdge 2900

2 X Intel E5410 2.33GHz

4GB memory

5 X 146GB SAS HDD + 1 X 146GB hot spare in raid 5 config

48xCDRW/DVD

3.5” FDD

Redundant PSU

PERC 6/i controller

 

 

I was thinking of a similar server this time, only fitting it with more memory and running server 2008. It would be a second DC and would run: File sharing, Exchange 2008, DHCP, SIMS/FMS and SQL.

 

Is Server 2008 more resource hungry like Vista is? And what should I increase the memory to?

[matt40k]

Noooooooooooooo

 

Don't run SIMS and Exchange on the same box!!! If you do, make sure you have Virtual servers running.

[mb2k01]

I'd agree with Matt40k - don't go putting SIMS and Exchange together.

The spec looks ok for a SIMS server... but i'm not sure about the badge on the front of it!

[ranj]

From my experience server 2008 is far less resource hungry than Vista.

 

Obviouslyy your notice a slower performance than if you used 2003 but if you have at least 4gb in the server you should be fine.

[FN-GM]

I dont think Sims can run on server 2008 can it?

[Aurora77]

 

Is Server 2008 more resource hungry like Vista is? And what should I increase the memory to?

 

 

Yes it's the case

 

Win 2003 Server:

Windows Server 2003 System Requirements

 

Win 2008 Server

Windows Server 2008 System Requirements

 

Regarding the question "...what should I increase the memory to?" It will depend how much data you want to process and store. 4GB might not be enough for heavy load.

[matt40k]

I dont think Sims can run on server 2008 can it?

 

Yes, Capita support it from 1st Jan '09

 

 

Remember if you go over 4GB you want to look at 64BIT, SIMS works on 64bit hardware, BUT NOVA-T etc won't! So don't expect to do any timetabling or such.

[dhicks]

Is Server 2008 more resource hungry like Vista is? And what should I increase the memory to?

 

As others have pointed out already, run virtual servers to stop applications interfering with each other. We have a couple of machines licensed for Windows Server 2008 Enterprise Edition, which allows you up to four VMs per machine at something like £300 at educational pricing, which isn't bad. Server 2008 seems to run just fine as a VM with 1GB of RAM assigned - we have three Server 2008 VMs running on one machine, DC, printer server and application server, and all seem fine. It's definatly worth putting at least 8GB of RAM in that machine, though, if not 16GB. You might also want to put another network card or two in (fancy ones are £30 each) just to give you some more bandwidth.

 

--

David Hicks

[FN-GM]

Yes, Capita support it from 1st Jan '09

 

 

Remember if you go over 4GB you want to look at 64BIT, SIMS works on 64bit hardware, BUT NOVA-T etc won't! So don't expect to do any timetabling or such.

 

If you get Enterprise 32bit i think you can go over 4gb can you? i might be wrong on that though.

[tmcd35]

I thought the 4Gb limit was due to 32bit addressing not an artificial limit imposed by M$ on some versions of their OS. AFAIK any 32bit version of Windows can use more than 4Gb RAM by using paging - PAE. Only 4Gb of RAM can actually be addressed/accessed at any given moment but PAE allows windows to effectively switch between multiple 4gb banks of memory.

 

64bit allows >4Gb of continous (non-paged) RAM to be used.

[uk101man]

If you get Enterprise 32bit i think you can go over 4gb can you? i might be wrong on that though.

 

32bit can only see 3.somthing of memory

[tmcd35]

32bit can only see 3.somthing of memory

 

Not quite - 32bit allows for up to 4Gb of available memory addresses. But - just about any peripheral, PCI Cards, NICs, Graphics Cards, etc - use some of the memory addresses in the 4Gb range making them in turn unavailable for use by the system memory. Probrably the biggest item that effects how much of the 4Gb your system can see/use is the graphics card. AFAIK the more graphics RAM you have the less of the 4Gb system RAM is actually available.

[teejay]

The 2900 is being replaced by the T610, which is now available. Bit of a beast with the new Xeons in it, but well worth it especially if you go down the virtualisation route.

[Jay]

3.5” FDD

 

Not seen one of these specced on a server in some time.

[matt40k]

Not quite - 32bit allows for up to 4Gb of available memory addresses. But - just about any peripheral, PCI Cards, NICs, Graphics Cards, etc - use some of the memory addresses in the 4Gb range making them in turn unavailable for use by the system memory. Probrably the biggest item that effects how much of the 4Gb your system can see/use is the graphics card. AFAIK the more graphics RAM you have the less of the 4Gb system RAM is actually available.

 

Yes enterprise can address more RAM... but you'll still hitting the 32bit barrer. I think it's just a cope out. It still has trouble giving out more then 2gb ram per process. If your buying new, spec for 64bit but rememeber to take into account the fact some things don't work. IE you know that if SIMS Support or such remotes in, they won't be able to run the old modules like Nova-T. Basically don't go thin client for SIMS.

[Jobos]

Thanks for all the advice guys it’s appreciated.

 

@matt40k

@mb2k01

I’m assuming you are against putting Sims and Exchange on the same box because of the combined loading. In the school in question Sims is only used by 2 people and Exchange will be sending/receiving a combined total of no more than 100 emails per day so will that still cause problems?

 

On my other servers that are running 2003 I have scripted NTBackup that runs every night and backs up to an NAS drive located in a remote building. I understand that server 2008 doesn’t come with NTBackup so I will need to buy software for that. Any recommendations for software that will backup to NAS and work with minimal supervision?

[Soulfish]

Have a look at the Sun Matching Grant programme if you're after some new servers. Dell + HP couldn't get close to their pricing for what we were after, and you may find you can get two servers for similar to what your paying for just one.

 

The price list is at http://uk.sun.com/specials/grantprog/pdf/MATCHING_GRANT_FY09H2_UK_ENDUSER_03APR09.pdf and have a word with the cutter project if you do decide to see what you can get with Sun. Just been told our new servers are being delivered tomorrow

[EduTech]

Yes i would also agree with matt and mb dont put SIMS and Exchange on the same box, i tend to keep sims on its own box. well used to until i turned it into thin air

 

it now sits on a box, x64 Host with 2 VM's Talmos and SIMSSERVER

 

Runs like a dream.

 

But yes keep them seperate if i was you.

 

James.

[mb2k01]

Thanks for all the advice guys it’s appreciated.

 

@matt40k

@mb2k01

I’m assuming you are against putting Sims and Exchange on the same box because of the combined loading. In the school in question Sims is only used by 2 people and Exchange will be sending/receiving a combined total of no more than 100 emails per day so will that still cause problems?

 

On my other servers that are running 2003 I have scripted NTBackup that runs every night and backs up to an NAS drive located in a remote building. I understand that server 2008 doesn’t come with NTBackup so I will need to buy software for that. Any recommendations for software that will backup to NAS and work with minimal supervision?

 

My post wasnt really due to load actually. I'm sure it would cope fine along those lines.

The main reasons I wouldn't be keen are that SIMS would ideally be on a completely secure system, isn't (in my experience) as reliable as Exchange and requires frequent updates, shutdown/resets etc.

 

From your projections I'm guessing this is a very small school? If that was the case I'd seriously consider 2 servers instead of one. However, others on here are very hot on virtualisation (which I have no where near enough knowledge on - but looks promising). It might be that 1 server and 2 virtual servers is a compromise?

[EduTech]

Virtulising SIMS you will have no problems with.. i am not sure how exchange would cope being virtulised.. but i am sure it would run ok (i have not done that yet, so could not give you a secure answer)...

 

If you were to virtulise 2 servers on 1 host, i would possible think of upgrading the RAM to maybe 8gb running a x64 HOST and then give SIMS 3gig RAM - 4gig to Exchange and the 1gb for your host

 

I'm pretty sure that would cope with it, if its only a small school i am guessing exchange would run fine as a VM.

 

James.

[DAckroyd]

if you want to stick with physical servers, for your SIMS, get an eeeBox and put server 2008 on that - it would do a good job for 2 people or you can get HP servers for under £100

[DAckroyd]

Virtulising SIMS you will have no problems with.. i am not sure how exchange would cope being virtulised.. but i am sure it would run ok (i have not done that yet, so could not give you a secure answer)...

 

James.

 

there's no problems with running exchange on a VM as long as you have a desent host then there is very little you can't run as a VM - even very CPU intensive things are good on VM cos if the hardware goes down if you have a good selection of hosts then your HA or equiverlent will kick in and move

[EduTech]

there's no problems with running exchange on a VM as long as you have a desent host then there is very little you can't run as a VM - even very CPU intensive things are good on VM cos if the hardware goes down if you have a good selection of hosts then your HA or equiverlent will kick in and move

 

Very True indeed, i dont have a problem with running Exchange as a VM.. the only servers i dont and would not recommend Virtulising is storage, but most people tend to use a NAS solution.

 

I know in a way i have just contridicted myself there, i know some people have other thoughts on Virtulising Exchange which is why i said i'm not sure

[matt40k]

The reason you don't have sims and exchange on the same server is simple, SIMS uses SQL server. Exchange and SQL both eat and extremely large amount of computer resources. Generally RAM, of course this won't be an issue if you have only SQL Express, as this will only use 1 core and 1GB ram. So it's just a question of making sure exchange doesn't enter that 1gb ram space nor use that core.

 

NTbackup is still in Windows 2008, I belive its an add-on now, however you can't backup to tape. Which is what you should be doing, if just for SIMS.

 

(Yes, I've just opened the box re backups, but I would always have an encrypted offsite backup of sims on a different media that what it is stored on. It's the safest way. End of).

Edited April 16, 2009 by matt40k

[DAckroyd]

setup an upto xcopy script on a memory stick and cycle which one you use - easier to take off site and cheaper than tapes