Complex (for us) timetabling

[Homer]

Morning all

 

We've put a ticket in with Bromcom but if anybody here has some advice for us it would be appreciated, we have not long come across to Bromcom from SIMS (start of June) and we've got an unexpected change that we need to implement - we're going from a fairly standard timetable to one that is split between KS3/KS4.

 

Now I'm sure this is the case for a few schools... our timetable has been completed in NT6 (we're licensed until towards the end of the year, and it's what our timetabler knows at this point) but what type of period structure would we need to do, to accommodate it? Nova support advised us to do split periods/lunches, which we've done, but they overlap so I don't know how this can be put in to Bromcom?! 

 

Like I say we have a ticket open too but you can't beat community knowledge 

 

Thanks! 

 

Couple of screenshots attached..

 

 

[Devaleth]

We have a similar system (although for us the year groups get split in half, rather than it be whole year groups by Key Stage). There are essentially two approaches you can take I think.

 

Solution 1

Take your whole time for period 2/period 4 (e.g. 10:00 to 11:25) and split it in two. Then have a 2a and a 2b of roughly equal lengths (maybe 40 + 45 minutes). This is the simplest way of showing it but there are some downsides.

1. You will need to be careful with cover (you could technically assign somebody to both 2a and 2b if not careful, which obviously overlaps)
2. You system times won't be accurate for either break or the KS4 lessons
3. Assigned cover time will also be inaccurate (40-45 minutes rather than an hour)

We tried this for a year and didn't like the feel of it.

 

Solution 2

Take your whole time for period 2/period 4 and split it into three. E.g. 2a = 10:00 to 10:24, 2b = 10:25 to 10:59, 2c = 11:00 to 11:24. This is the most accurate way of showing it but comes with different downsides.

1. More work for your timetabler (you'd have to manually duplicate those periods in the timetabling software before import)
2. You'll need to train staff carefully to properly take the new double registers you've created (KS3 P2 = 2a+b, KS4 P2 = 2b+c). Bromcom will default to showing them the first register only. If teachers go to their timetables first before selecting registers it will then show them the correct double column register to complete
3. Some things might duplicate (e.g. if you have an internal truancy mark that is used in registers, if you have that linked to a behaviour pathway such as a detention, this might generate two detentions for the same lesson if the truancy mark was used in both halves of the "double")
4. Your timetable might get too long to fit on a single side of A4 for students

 

NB when you set this period structure up in Bromcom you'd have to use all lessons for period type - don't class any of them as lunch/break as period type. Also note that none of the break/lunch periods you have setup in your NT6 model should be present in the final import.

 

Personally I would go with Solution 2. Your NT6 model would then be Reg, 1, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3, 4a, 4b, 4c, 5, 6.

 

[Bromcom_John]

You can also use the tools provided to set up a split lunch expllcitly. See below for guidance
https://docs.bromcom.com/knowledge-base/how-to-set-up-split-lunches/

[Homer]

20 hours ago, Devaleth said:

We have a similar system (although for us the year groups get split in half, rather than it be whole year groups by Key Stage). There are essentially two approaches you can take I think.

 

Solution 1

Take your whole time for period 2/period 4 (e.g. 10:00 to 11:25) and split it in two. Then have a 2a and a 2b of roughly equal lengths (maybe 40 + 45 minutes). This is the simplest way of showing it but there are some downsides.

1. You will need to be careful with cover (you could technically assign somebody to both 2a and 2b if not careful, which obviously overlaps)
2. You system times won't be accurate for either break or the KS4 lessons
3. Assigned cover time will also be inaccurate (40-45 minutes rather than an hour)

We tried this for a year and didn't like the feel of it.

 

Solution 2

Take your whole time for period 2/period 4 and split it into three. E.g. 2a = 10:00 to 10:24, 2b = 10:25 to 10:59, 2c = 11:00 to 11:24. This is the most accurate way of showing it but comes with different downsides.

1. More work for your timetabler (you'd have to manually duplicate those periods in the timetabling software before import)
2. You'll need to train staff carefully to properly take the new double registers you've created (KS3 P2 = 2a+b, KS4 P2 = 2b+c). Bromcom will default to showing them the first register only. If teachers go to their timetables first before selecting registers it will then show them the correct double column register to complete
3. Some things might duplicate (e.g. if you have an internal truancy mark that is used in registers, if you have that linked to a behaviour pathway such as a detention, this might generate two detentions for the same lesson if the truancy mark was used in both halves of the "double")
4. Your timetable might get too long to fit on a single side of A4 for students

 

NB when you set this period structure up in Bromcom you'd have to use all lessons for period type - don't class any of them as lunch/break as period type. Also note that none of the break/lunch periods you have setup in your NT6 model should be present in the final import.

 

Personally I would go with Solution 2. Your NT6 model would then be Reg, 1, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3, 4a, 4b, 4c, 5, 6.

 

 

Option 2 seems like the best fit for us too but reading between the lines here it seems like that model in NT6 is going to need work to split it in to three from the current two? 

 

1 hour ago, Bromcom_John said:

You can also use the tools provided to set up a split lunch expllcitly. See below for guidance
https://docs.bromcom.com/knowledge-base/how-to-set-up-split-lunches/

 

Thanks John this is what we're trying to get our head around, I think if we were on wT it may be easier? But we're trying to do this from NT6 (at the moment)

 

We need some solid guidance here on what to do... I'm hoping our timetabler isn't going to get a heart attack... 

[Devaleth]

15 minutes ago, Homer said:

 

Option 2 seems like the best fit for us too but reading between the lines here it seems like that model in NT6 is going to need work to split it in to three from the current two? 

 

 

Sadly, yes.

 

I'd suggest looping in whomever on SLT who leads on things like duties, timetabling etc before taking any action and have a proper sit down to talk it through before agreeing a decision.

 

I'm not very familiar with the wTimetable implementation of this. It may end up being a better solution for you but you've have to recreate the entire timetable in wTimetable. Even more work now, but maybe less work later?

[Homer]

Oh man. She is our SLT lead for it, I might give Bromcom a call in a bit because it's now got to be a decision between trying to wrangle this in to NT6 or do it in wT now. 

 

This wasn't on our radar when we booked our migration or we'd have mitigated the risks already

[Bromcom_John]

There is an option that might help, and it is pretty zero risk to at least try.
In one of the recent releases we added a means to import the detail from your NovaT files directly into the wTimetable module.
I have no idea what the end result will actually look like "but".. as you can execute this into a fresh Timetable model and, until you decide to, there is no way this is going to impact your live solution.. Worth a try, if only to see what your other options are.

See the link below|
https://whatsnew.bromcomcloud.com/en/preview-wtimetable-_-ability-to-import-nova_t6-timetable-NGfVnMzq

 

If anything this will give you a nive project to help understand how the period structures will differ between what you have in NovaT and Bromcom ie. No need to have a timetabled tutor period..

[DeeGee]

The best solution to this is probably, actually, not to timetable a break. Do you need break timetabled? Don't worry about splitting period 2.

 

Make lesson 2 run from 10 until 11:25. That way you can't overlap accidentally or put cover on at the wrong time. The kids and staff will get the hang of where they are actually supposed to be quickly, and you can tell supply staff what time the lesson is when they get their cover slips.

 

As John wrote above, use the new split lunch functionality in wTimetable to schedule lesson 4. That way you can also schedule duties within the timetable if you wish.

 

I'd suggest getting it into wTT via the new import routine and working on it/publishing directly from there - always better to use the one piece of software rather than keep switching between the two, and wTT is designed to work with Bromcom without any clunky period matching routines...