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Server 2019 Standard to Datacenter

aicrd

By aicrd
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aicrd

aicrd

Posted
Posted

May be a stupid question, but we have a server running 2019 Standard and are going to buy a Datacenter licence to get unlimited Hyper-V VMs.

 

Can I just buy the licence and use unlimited VMs, or do I need to upgrade the host from Standard to Datacenter first?

aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Strangely I'm going the other way as Std Licencing was far cheaper than DC.

It's not an officially supported route (AFAIK) but it seems pretty straight forward.

How to Downgrade Windows Server Datacenter to Standard Edition? | Windows OS Hub

 

We're licencing 4 VMs currently and want a 5th one but at 5 it's cheaper to go the Datacenter route instead of paying for Standard.

 

We have a service provider agreement, so our licences are paid month to month and aren't perpetual.

KK20

KK20

Posted
Posted (edited)

It is usually 10, remember that if the host is not doing anything other then hyper-v then you get 2 VMs per std licence (otherwise you need to license the host AND have sufficient licences for the virtual load). Assuming your core counts are basic 16, for 5VMs (non clustered) you would need 3x std 16core worth licences. It gets funky if you are over the cores of course but you still need to license STD or DC per 16 core minimum anyway.

 

we pay 299 for our DC and 47 for our STD (annually 16 core versions) so for us it would be 13VMs break even point between using 7x std 16 core licenses and 1x 16 core DC licence). I only run 9 VMs but need DC for stretch clustering though...

Edited by KK20
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aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Not sure if I am doing my calculations right then.

 

The SKU we licence is:

 

[TABLE=width: 372]

[TR]

[TD]WinSvrSTDCore ALNG LicSAPk MVL 2Lic CoreLic

 

This costs £4.12 a month.

 

We've been told a minimum purchase requirement of 8 cores is needed, so thats 4 of those licences at a cost of[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

£32.96

 

Am I right in saying it will cost us £32.96 a month per VM, or do we only licence 4 cores per VM instead of the minimum requirement of 8?

 

If so, that means we should be paying £61.92 a month OVERALL and not £32.96. per VM. (4 VMs @ 4 Cores each = 16 licences required total).

 

Note: The Hyper-V host in question has a single Xeon CPU with 4 physical cores and 8 threads.

Edited by aicrd
mavhc

mavhc

Posted
Posted
You don't licence a VM for Windows, you licence the hardware. Std means you can have 2(+1 if it's just for hyperv) Windows VMs/Containers on that hardware. Datacenter means you can have as many as you want. If you move the VM to another machine, that machine should be licenced. You can transfer the licences to the new hw, but only once every 180 days, so you're not supposed to move them around a lot, you're supposed to licence all your hardware for Windows, and thus be dissuaded from using Linux. Of course no code/humans check up on you.
Steve21

Steve21

Posted
Posted

 

We've been told a minimum purchase requirement of 8 cores is needed, so thats 4 of those licences at a cost of[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

£32.96

 

Am I right in saying it will cost us £32.96 a month per VM, or do we only licence 4 cores per VM instead of the minimum requirement of 8?

 

If so, that means we should be paying £61.92 a month OVERALL and not £32.96. per VM. (4 VMs @ 4 Cores each = 16 licences required total).

 

Note: The Hyper-V host in question has a single Xeon CPU with 4 physical cores and 8 threads.

 

Nope to all the above I'm afraid.

 

It's a minimum of 8 cores per CPU however it's minimum 16 per server. So you need 16 cores covered (8 packs of 2 if you're doing it in 2's)

 

Minimum license requirements

• All physical cores must be licensed

• 8 core licenses per processor

• 16 core licenses per server

 

Then as the others said Standard = 2 VMs, DC = unlimited

 

So if you're doing 5 VMs it's basically either 16 cores of DC (as the minimum), or 48 cores of standard (being 16 per server * 3 to cover 5 VMs)

 

Steve

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aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
Nope to all the above I'm afraid.

 

It's a minimum of 8 cores per CPU however it's minimum 16 per server. So you need 16 cores covered (8 packs of 2 if you're doing it in 2's)

 

 

 

Then as the others said Standard = 2 VMs, DC = unlimited

 

So if you're doing 5 VMs it's basically either 16 cores of DC (as the minimum), or 48 cores of standard (being 16 per server * 3 to cover 5 VMs)

 

Steve

 

Damm this is confusing! Ok so I was looking at the DXC SPLA Calulator here: https://www.dxc.technology/SLMS/flxwd/148365-dxc_spla_calculator

 

They mention this

"Note: 1 VM is included in the Standard Base License once all physical cores are properly licensed. Additional VMs/OSEs can be added by re-licensing the total number of cores in the Server"

 

So does that mean I purchase 16 cores to properly licence the server at first, then 4 cores per additional VM? Or is it 16 cores per VM?

 

Note also when I spoke with my account manager at first they mentioned standard gets you 1 VM, not 2.

Edited by aicrd
jmak

jmak

Posted
Posted
Damm this is confusing!

.........

 

Note also when I spoke with my account manager at first they mentioned standard gets you 1 VM, not 2.

 

Not gonna disagree that it's confusing!

 

If you install the OS as a physical server, you can also use it to host an instance of Windows server as a VM.

 

However, if you only install the hypervisor role as a physical install, you're allowed to run 2 full VMs with a single licence (well, 16 licensed cores). Every additional set of licences permits a further 2 VMs.

 

Slightly more concisely expressed here, which I took from https://www.altaro.com/hyper-v/windows-server-standard-edition/

 

A physical host with the minimum Windows Standard Edition license can operate two virtualized instances of Windows Server Standard Edition, as long as the physically-installed instance only operates the virtual machines.

  • Thanks 1
Steve21

Steve21

Posted
Posted
So does that mean I purchase 16 cores to properly licence the server at first, then 4 cores per additional VM? Or is it 16 cores per VM?

 

Nope, it’s 16 cores minimum to license one copy of standard/dc (for the physical machine)

 

One copy standard gives 2 VM

One copy Datacenter is unlimited VM

 

If you go over that VM limit you basically need to relicense the entire physical

 

Eg

 

1 VM = 16 std or 16 dc

2 VM = 16 Std or 16 dc

3 VM = 32 std or 16 dc

4 VM = 32 std or 16 dc

5 VM = 48 std or 16 dc

Etc

 

If that makes more sense

 

Steve

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aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Thanks all, cleared up a lot. It's clearly cheaper for us to go Standard then. I do have a call with our reseller tomorrow so I should also get a definite answer before we report our usage.
KK20

KK20

Posted
Posted (edited)

STD and DC come in two licensing options, 2core and 16core. It is cheaper for us to buy a 16 core than 8x2core. We use DC as we need features in DC. We have 4x servers in a cluster, each of the hosts have 2x 8 core CPUs (makes it easy). We happen to have 9 VMs in the cluster. Since these VMs can migrate to any of the hosts, I need to license each server to the MAXIMUM VMs i.e. 9. So for us, licensing is easy - 4x 16core DC licenses.

 

Now, if I wanted to go STD then this again is easy. Per server I have 9 (read 10) VMs and 16 cores. So that would be 5x 16 core STD licences per host (each STD allows 2 OSE VMs), 4 hosts in my cluster so 20x 16 core STD licences for my site. I do not use the hosts for anything other than hyper-v so I do not need a licence for the host itself. If your hypervisor was a domain controller (!!) then you would need an additional 16 core STD licence for the host alone in addition to the 5x 16 core STD licences for the VMs - you are NOT ALLOWED to use the "host alone" licence in your VM calculation you see. Not that it is a good idea to use the hypervisor for anything else anyway!

 

hypothesis time. If I had 4x 20 core servers in my cluster, then I would need 5x 16 core STD plus an additional 10x 2 core packs per server. This means a total of 20x 16 core STD licenses and 40x 2 core packs for my site.

 

The link you posted to the calculator is wrong. Here is the MS page stating 2VMs per STD licence https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/pricing (again providing the hypervisor is ONLY doing hypervisor tasks)

 

In none of the above I have talked about CALS or external connector licences. Since we use EES desktop packs, these are taken care of. ECs depend on 3rd parties you have connecting to your network externally etc. Licensing is fun.

Edited by KK20
KK20

KK20

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why do you say that? Sometimes you dont need any licensing. Say you want to run a linux PFSENSE firewall on a server. You arent familiar with VMware so prefer hyper-v. You can install hyper-v server core on a server licence free and keep your linux pfsense container in that if you wish - no windows licenses needed at all. This makes backup/restore an easy option on dissimilar hardware as you simply need the virtual switches setup the same. The instance can be added to veeam for a much cheaper cost (as it is a virtual load not physical) for example.

 

VMware licence per cpu up to 32cores so you still need to count CPUs etc which is more cost efficient, 1x 32 core CPU or 2x 16 core or 4x8core? No idea but the MS model allows mix and match whereas VM is per CPU almost regardless of cores (32 is alot per CPU at the moment!). If you go over 32cores per CPU then you need extra CPU packs. Oracle also have a core factor and CPU calculator etc. It is quite common.

 

If you want REALLY fun licensing then look at a hybrid SAP onsite and cloud with updates. That has the lot, per CPU, per core, per software, per management, per CAL and hosting transfer licensing. Granted it has been a while since I played with SAP but it wasnt fun. Most people just took the very expensive perpetual licence and upgraded when they really had to....

Edited by KK20
aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Looking at my pricing sheet, the only SKUs we can licence is:

 

[TABLE=width: 372]

[TR]

[TD]WinSvrDCCore ALNG LicSAPk MVL 2Lic CoreLic[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]WinSvrEssntls ALNG LicSAPk MVL 1Proc[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]WinSvrSTDCore ALNG LicSAPk MVL 2Lic CoreLic[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

No mention of a 16 core pack so I don't think I can purchase it.

aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Ok so I think I see where the confusion is now. Turns out the rules differ on service provider agreements vs standard open licence agreements.

 

From the Service Provider Usage Rights doc:

 

"Server Licenses (per core)

1. Customer may use the server software on a Licensed Server, provided it acquires sufficient Serverlicenses as described below.

2. The number of Licenses required equals the number of Physical Cores on the Licensed Server, subject to a minimum of 8 Licenses per Physical Processor.

3. Standard edition

· Standard edition permits use of the server software in one OSEon the Licensed Server.

· Standard edition permits use of one Running Instanceof the server software in the Physical OSEon the Licensed Server(in addition to one Virtual OSE), if the Physical OSEis used solely to host and Managethe Virtual OSE.

· Customer may assign additional Standard edition Licenses to the Licensed Serverequal to the number specified in 2 above and run the server software in one additional OSEon the Licensed Server.

Datacenter edition permits use of the server software in any number of OSEs on the Licensed Server. "

 

"The Open License minimum of 16 core licenses for each server is not applicable under SPLA"

Edited by aicrd
jmak

jmak

Posted
Posted (edited)

Are you eligible for any of the education pricing? It's a couple of years since I got quotes, but annual prices worked out much cheaper than that.

 

Edit: Also seems really weird that they have different rules for monthly pricing compared to both annual and perpetual licensing [emoji2369]

Edited by jmak
aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Depends on who the end user is. We can get education pricing if they're entitiled to it but otherwise it's corporate.

 

Key thing with this agreement is it allows us to host & resell software licences to others. You can't do that on any other agreement. There's also no annual pricing, as your user / licence count may differ each month.

 

The SKU for education is: [TABLE=width: 372]

[TR]

[TD]WinSvrSTDCore ALNG LicSAPk MVL 2Lic CoreLic at a cost of £0.59 per month. [/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
Have you spoken with any licensing specialists? @johnlevis at Very-PC sent me spreadsheet to fill in and then came back to me with the cost options. It really was that simple.

 

Yes, we already have an agreement in place. Since it's a month to month agreement, we haven't actually paid anything yet as we haven't started to use the licences. I'll be talking to our reseller before we do our first report to make sure I dont miss anything.

 

 

I probably should have mentioned we had an SPLA agreement from the start however I didn't realise the licencing rules differed at all.

Edited by aicrd
KK20

KK20

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ive just twigged. You are an SPLA. Ignore all I have said and you are correct. SPLA play by different rules, I have limited info on SPLA im afraid but it does look to be more expensive than us "on premises" people. 16 core packs are not available for SPLA and the licensing is per CPU core with 1 CPU and 8 core minimum pricing. The kicker is the OSE not counting! https://wiki.msp.exchange/sales/spla_windows_server_licensing shows it gets expensive quickly on STD Edited by KK20
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aicrd

aicrd

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Ive just twigged. You are an SPLA. Ignore all I have said and you are correct. SPLA play by different rules, I have limited info on SPLA im afraid but it does look to be more expensive than us "on premises" people. 16 core packs are not available for SPLA and the licensing is per CPU core with 1 CPU and 8 core minimum pricing. The kicker is the OSE not counting! https://wiki.msp.exchange/sales/spla_windows_server_licensing shows it gets expensive quickly on STD

 

Yes sorry. Had no idea the rules were different! Quite annoying. I only realised after I spotted something in our usage rights doc.

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