[ipad] iPad leasing...

[Koldov]

My Business manager has just forwarded an email to me from a company he has enquired with about leasing iPads.

 

Some eye watering figures in there....

 

Could anyone please give me recommendations of companies (with an education focus) who they lease iPads from.

 

And if the experience has worked out worth it in the long run?

[Brimstone]

Any school that leases iPads SAVE money against the capital equipment purchase as they never pay 100% of the cost?

[Koldov]

Hi @Brimstone,

 

Do you have the rough figures and the name of the company you lease from please?

 

Feel free to PM if you don't want to post publicly.

 

Also need to know if things are included like insurance, extended warranty, charging trolleys, cases etc.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Koldov

[Zammo]

Any school that leases iPads SAVE money against the capital equipment purchase as they never pay 100% of the cost?

 

The usual perspective I see from schools is that it "costs" more because you are unable to sweat the assets without additional costs

 

Rightly or wrongly, most schools would not replenish their iPad estate on a 3 year or even 4 year basis, but a lease will likely be for these terms.

 

So perhaps another way of putting it is that it increases the commitment, rather than the cost per-se

[Koldov]

The usual perspective I see from schools is that it "costs" more because you are unable to sweat the assets without additional costs

 

Rightly or wrongly, most schools would not replenish their iPad estate on a 3 year or even 4 year basis, but a lease will likely be for these terms.

 

So perhaps another way of putting it is that it increases the commitment, rather than the cost per-se

 

And that is the crux of the matter....

 

We have 120 1st and 2nd Gen iPad minis, good for nothing really... but actually great for the glorified Google (other search engines are available) internet research devices they are being used for. These were bought in 2014 I think and the initial purchase price vs. at least 2 terms of a leasing contract might be pretty close. On the other hand if we used them as iPads with great educational apps that need to be on the latest iOS it might be different?

 

So, I'm fighting the battle on two fronts really and just want to know people's real-life experience was (and any good companies, so I can get the BM to get multiple quotes).

 

I've currently replied to his email with the last line being "What are they going to be used for….? This really needs to be driven by the SLT and teaching staff with a focus on T&L. That should lead any decisions… it just seems like people are deciding what we need, but don’t really know why we need them…"

 

We also have the Chair of Governors chipping in about how he thinks Chromebooks are a better option... but I don't have any experience with Chromebooks... aren't they just underpowered laptops for web browsing? If that's all they are going to do with them it might be a better option...

[Brimstone]

And that is the crux of the matter....

 

We have 120 1st and 2nd Gen iPad minis, good for nothing really... but actually great for the glorified Google (other search engines are available) internet research devices they are being used for. These were bought in 2014 I think and the initial purchase price vs. at least 2 terms of a leasing contract might be pretty close. On the other hand if we used them as iPads with great educational apps that need to be on the latest iOS it might be different? .

 

Underpowered iPads that are out of date and being used a glorified web browsers should be traded in, they make zero impact

 

We also have the Chair of Governors chipping in about how he thinks Chromebooks are a better option... but I don't have any experience with Chromebooks... aren't they just underpowered laptops for web browsing? If that's all they are going to do with them it might be a better option...

 

You may as well keep the iPads until they die then.

[Brimstone]

 

I've currently replied to his email with the last line being "What are they going to be used for….? This really needs to be driven by the SLT and teaching staff with a focus on T&L. That should lead any decisions… it just seems like people are deciding what we need, but don’t really know why we need them…"

That's exactly what I would be saying, planning ahead with the right vision and the right focus on T & L is essential.

[Griff]

I would be really keen to know why iPads. We have 100 here and I hate them with a passion they were purchased before my time. They are now slow, broken and outdated. Having to remove apps because they are no longer compatible with current iOS and you cannot update the iOS argh. Case in point here I just had my devices returned they have been loaned out already got 3 broken screens on the iPads, all my Chromebooks so far intact.

 

We have about 100 Chromebooks now they are just a browser correct but if your school is Google based then they are in my view a great option. We are going to be using them to teach year 5 and 6 computing something we 100% could not do on iPads. I just chucked 4 into a classroom and the kids who had never used a Chromebook were straight on to them no problem. Our filtering works really well with them even filters them at home if they take the device away. Again though depends on the need for example we had a maths teacher who wanted iPads but we found they only really required a web browser so we got some £30 kindles stuck them on a kiosk mode on the 1 website he wanted job done.

[Koldov]

That's exactly what I would be saying, planning ahead with the right vision and the right focus on T & L is essential.

 

Well, when we bought the iPad minis back in 2014, we had a friend of the then IT co-ordinator (who has since left - a role that hasn't been filled in over 4 years now) who used to work for the LEA IT dept. They had set-up an 'IT consulting firm' and we called them in to help us with our initial iPad deployment (this was back in the day of creating 5 Apple IDs from a single gmail account - remember that eh?)... This cost us £££s...

 

Anyway, they had our teacher's heads filled with ideas of green screening videos, interactive apps and all sorts... but it was a bit complicated getting apps and sorting out how to purchase and deploy them... Then they got used to Google things and that's all they've been used for since.

 

A bit like our old white Macbooks, which arrived years ago as part of an LEA/WAP funded project to use Garage Band in music lessons (a bit before my time). When I found them in a cupboard after I started at the school, I found the teacher that was leading the project had left and the IT guy at the time had bootcamped them all with Windows and they were being used for... guess what?

[jmak]

I found that most leasing seemed to break even at between 3 and 5 years. The obvious advantage is that you don't need to have the full cost available up front. Sometimes the cost only breaks even if you include what you would have to pay for a support contract if you'd bought outright.

 

If you plan on keeping them for 3 years but pay a price that would break even after 5 years, you've won. If you plan on keeping them for 5 years and superior in house, you lose. In the first scenario, the business model for the supplier is that they take back the 3 year old devices and sell them, sign you up to a new lease and make a profit on your lease payments plus the second hand value.

 

Lots of businesses do this as it means they always have up to date hardware and predictable costs and it can work for schools too. Your finance team need to carefully look at the figures as some deals are good value and others are not. They'll also need to look into arranging the budget so that the cost fingers from operational rather than capital budget and make sure that it's an operating lease rather than credit terms as (state) schools aren't allowed to take loans.

 

Your question was about iPad leasing, so I'll mostly stick to that. However I will mention that I'm a big fan of Chromebooks and they're much more than glorified with browsers nowadays (my personal one run has a core i3 processor and 4GB RAM and comfortable runs plenty of useful Linux apps). With Android apps available and the amount of really good web based applications (audio, graphics and video processing, education apps to support most curriculum areas) they're really useful and work well in an O365 environment. They're reliable and straightforward to manage. The key to success is the point you made about knowing what the teaching and learning purpose is before you buy.

[Brimstone]

I found that most leasing seemed to break even at between 3 and 5 years.

 

Break even against what exactly?

 

The obvious advantage is that you don't need to have the full cost available up front. Sometimes the cost only breaks even if you include what you would have to pay for a support contract if you'd bought outright.

 

Schools can include software and any support contract in the lease as well, although there is limit on these items, known as soft costs

 

If you plan on keeping them for 3 years but pay a price that would break even after 5 years, you've won. If you plan on keeping them for 5 years and superior in house, you lose. In the first scenario, the business model for the supplier is that they take back the 3 year old devices and sell them, sign you up to a new lease and make a profit on your lease payments plus the second hand value.

Completely incorrect...resellers make margin on the difference between the cost and sell price, finance houses make their margin on the residual value when the goods are returned, most if not all finance houses make anything on the lease itself nowadays

Lots of businesses do this as it means they always have up to date hardware and predictable costs and it can work for schools too. Your finance team need to carefully look at the figures as some deals are good value and others are not. They'll also need to look into arranging the budget so that the cost fingers from operational rather than capital budget and make sure that it's an operating lease rather than credit terms as (state) schools aren't allowed to take loans.

 

Costs coming from operational budgets rather than capital is the point, schools can estimate and build in these costs ahead of time. I've met so many school business managers who don't even know the difference.

 

Your question was about iPad leasing, so I'll mostly stick to that. However I will mention that I'm a big fan of Chromebooks and they're much more than glorified with browsers nowadays (my personal one run has a core i3 processor and 4GB RAM and comfortable runs plenty of useful Linux apps). With Android apps available and the amount of really good web based applications (audio, graphics and video processing, education apps to support most curriculum areas) they're really useful and work well in an O365 environment. They're reliable and straightforward to manage. The key to success is the point you made about knowing what the teaching and learning purpose is before you buy.

Each to their own but most Chromebook's are not mobile devices, I can still use an iPad without any interenet access.

[Brimstone]

Well, when we bought the iPad minis back in 2014, we had a friend of the then IT co-ordinator (who has since left - a role that hasn't been filled in over 4 years now) who used to work for the LEA IT dept. They had set-up an 'IT consulting firm' and we called them in to help us with our initial iPad deployment (this was back in the day of creating 5 Apple IDs from a single gmail account - remember that eh?)... This cost us £££s...

 

Anyway, they had our teacher's heads filled with ideas of green screening videos, interactive apps and all sorts... but it was a bit complicated getting apps and sorting out how to purchase and deploy them... Then they got used to Google things and that's all they've been used for since.

 

A bit like our old white Macbooks, which arrived years ago as part of an LEA/WAP funded project to use Garage Band in music lessons (a bit before my time). When I found them in a cupboard after I started at the school, I found the teacher that was leading the project had left and the IT guy at the time had bootcamped them all with Windows and they were being used for... guess what?

 

Back in day, just as now iPads required even more pre-planning, just buying a load of them without this means the technology will fail and provide zero teaching and learning impact. It continually amazes me as most qualified specialists for iPads (AAES) provide these types of services free of charge.

[jmak]

Break even against what exactly?

Monthly payment * 36= purchase price

Although obviously at the end of the lease you don't own the devices. Some contracts allow purchase for a nominal fee - some don't. Something else for the finance team to worry about rather than the IT Support team.

 

Completely incorrect...resellers make margin on the difference between the cost and sell price, finance houses make their margin on the residual value when the goods are returned, most if not all finance houses make anything on the lease itself nowadays

 

We could argue over the possible permutations of this (there's often very little margin on hardware so hardware suppliers will take a fee from the finance company to supplement it), but my intention was just to illustrate that there are different ways for suppliers to make money even when the apparent cost to the purchaser is the same. I'll add "for example" next time.

 

Costs coming from operational budgets rather than capital is the point, schools can estimate and build in these costs ahead of time. I've met so many school business managers who don't even know the difference.

Agreed, which is why I mentioned it. Personally I feel that you're likely to pay a bit more overall, but you reduce your risk and you've had all of the benefit of the devices before you've paid all of the money. Some leadership or finance teams are very nervous about committing money for future years as they worry about either budget cuts or unavoidable cost increases (both of which I've seen) that make the lease payments unaffordable. It's also difficult to "save up" for big purchases due to files about carry over from one budget year to the next. When I was a governor, we were told that if we didn't spend our full budget, our funding for the following year would be cut, which can make planning for server replacements or roof repairs difficult.

[Brimstone]

Monthly payment * 36= purchase price

 

That is never, never the case, an operating lease (the only lease school are allowed to sign up for) strictly has to adhere to a residual value of the goods, the value of this can change but as iPads have a higher residual value the school save more money (unlike Chromebooks which are worth virtually nothing after 3 years)

 

Any finance company worth it's salt would give a school their best lease prices to show the savings over 100% outright purchase.

[Zammo]

That is never, never the case, an operating lease (the only lease school are allowed to sign up for) strictly has to adhere to a residual value of the goods, the value of this can change but as iPads have a higher residual value the school save more money (unlike Chromebooks which are worth virtually nothing after 3 years)

 

Any finance company worth it's salt would give a school their best lease prices to show the savings over 100% outright purchase.

 

But you dont get to keep the iPads FOC at the end of the lease. You must either purchase, extend the lease or return

[Brimstone]

But you dont get to keep the iPads FOC at the end of the lease. You must either purchase, extend the lease or return

 

Yes true, and your point is.....? The most cost effective choice is to hand them back and lease a new set, I’ve got plenty of schools who have been doing this for 9 years and more.

[Zammo]

Yes true, and your point is.....? The most cost effective choice is to hand them back and lease a new set, I’ve got plenty of schools who have been doing this for 9 years and more.

Because if an asset is viable for 4, 5 or 6 years, it is not more cost effective to keep replacing every 3

 

Furthermore if you purchase the ipads outright you get the benefits of residual value you were talking about. With an operating lease you don't see any residual value as you don't own the devices

[RLR]

We've been leasing iPads for 9 years. We usually get prices from Jigsaw24, Academia and one other at the time. Academia seem to always provide a better quote. The actual leasing is handled by CHG Meridian which have been great.

[2ilent8cho]

Leasing iPads always seems very expensive to me unless there is something I'm not seeing. So our students get a brand new iPad in Year 7 and it lasts them until Year 11.

 

We buy our iPads at around £235 each, a big Apple education specialist has on their website iPad leasing at £6.14 a month for a 3 year lease (Thats just an iPad , no MDM licence). So that's £221.04 to not own and have to return after 3 years, so for the sake of £14 is leasing really worth it? We have just over 900 kids, but lets just say 900. So the cost per year for us to lease would be 900 x £6.14 x 12 so £66,312. If we average the 900 out over 5 year groups, and just buy 180 iPads every year for Year 7 as they start the school it's £42,300 a year. Not only is in thousands cheaper for us, but we actually own the devices.

 

We use old iPads for hotswaps if we have a student iPad in for screen repair or we could trade them in against the new iPads. Even the iPad Air 2 which came out in 2014 which is over 6 years ago is still supported with the latest iOS.

[Brimstone]

Leasing iPads always seems very expensive to me unless there is something I'm not seeing. So our students get a brand new iPad in Year 7 and it lasts them until Year 11.

 

We buy our iPads at around £235 each, a big Apple education specialist has on their website iPad leasing at £6.14 a month for a 3 year lease (Thats just an iPad , no MDM licence). So that's £221.04 to not own and have to return after 3 years, so for the sake of £14 is leasing really worth it? We have just over 900 kids, but lets just say 900. So the cost per year for us to lease would be 900 x £6.14 x 12 so £66,312. If we average the 900 out over 5 year groups, and just buy 180 iPads every year for Year 7 as they start the school it's £42,300 a year. Not only is in thousands cheaper for us, but we actually own the devices.

 

We use old iPads for hotswaps if we have a student iPad in for screen repair or we could trade them in against the new iPads. Even the iPad Air 2 which came out in 2014 which is over 6 years ago is still supported with the latest iOS.

Your maths is wrong....

 

If you lease 180 x iPads at those rates

 

Cost per Year 180 x £6.14 x 12 =£13,262.40

x3 Years Total = £39,787.20

 

Both cheaper than buying outright

[paulkerton]

Your maths is wrong....

 

If you lease 180 x iPads at those rates

 

Cost per Year 180 x £6.14 x 12 =£13,262.40

x3 Years Total = £39,787.20

 

Both cheaper than buying outright

 

Except you're forgetting they keep the device for 5 years, so what are they doing in Years 4 and 5 at that point? There is still a lump sum or return and replace to do at the end of the 3 years, is there not?

Edited March 11, 2021 by paulkerton

[jmak]

Your maths is wrong....

 

If you lease 180 x iPads at those rates

 

Cost per Year 180 x £6.14 x 12 =£13,262.40

x3 Years Total = £39,787.20

 

Both cheaper than buying outright

By your figures (which I don't disagree with), after 3 years you would have paid £39k to lease them. Buying outright would have cost £42k. 180 three year old iPads should be worth more than £3k (£16.67 each), so you can either trade them in, in which case the unit cost for the replacements will be much cheaper, making outright purchase cheaper over 5 years even if you did choose to replace them. I'd expect them to last five years.

 

It can be a good way of budgeting if you don't have capital to spend and I wouldn't rule it out. It has the advantage of ensuring always having modern equipment - although I'd say that's less of an issue with iPads and other Apple kit than almost anything else as they do tend to last.