Overhead Visualiser

[caffrey]

Is there such thing a an overhead ceiling mounted visualiser ? I've been asked to source one for a F&N makeover project. If not it'll have to be a desk mounted one

[Steve21]

Isn't it just called a webcam/camera? As in if it's just to project the (guessing) worksurface/cooker whatnot. Depending on whether they need to be able to move/zoom it manually etc

 

Unless you're talking "proper" roof mounted ones, 50x zoom etc and the £k's+ price tags with it? https://wolfvision.com/en/products/vz-c6 etc Examples - Edinburgh Uni https://wolfvision.com/en/case-study/university-of-edinburgh

 

(Edit - Knew I saw it on an AV site somewhere - https://www.rocheav.co.uk/shop/vzc6 )

 

Or if you got really big bucks seems they've even got a 3D model now https://www.rocheav.co.uk/shop/vzc3d

 

Steve

Edited February 25, 2021 by Steve21

[caffrey]

Cheers, wow they are cheap.... I guess it's a 25 quid Chinese webcam attached with string then

 

I'm not entirely sure of the needs as usual I get kept out of the loop till they need something...

[mavhc]

Visualiser seems to be a way to overprice what everyone else calls a "camera".

 

So go back to basics, what range of field of view, depth of field, resolution, light levels does it need to cope with?

[caffrey]

I have no idea, I was just given instructions to find a overhead visualiser

 

Doesn't appear to be many out there - It'll end up just being a hue...

[SamanthaD]

We use Wolfvision Eye-14's. Come with a ceiling tile adapter so it can be flush mounted in the ceiling.

 

One big advantage these have is a laser dot which shows the center of the image. It's pulsed at a rate that's out of sync with the cameras frame rate so it doesn't show on the image.

 

Yes they're expensive, but I've never had to replace one yet and have never had any complaints from the users (mostly medical professionals in dissection settings).

[dhicks]

Is there such thing a an overhead ceiling mounted visualiser ?

 

We've got a Logitech PTZ Pro with motorised pan / tilt and zoom, all operable from a simple remote control. Plugs in to a PC / Chromebook as a standard USB camera, no extra drivers needed. I know it's being used at another school, ceiling mounted, to film science practical lessons - you can pre-set fixed x,y,zoom positions for it to point at (the teacher's desk, the science fume cupboard, etc) and have them as shortcuts on the remote. They were about £750 on Amazon a little while ago - that's cheaper than the one mentioned above (£5,400!), but still quite pricy.

 

For a cheaper option, just a webcam, as suggested, might well be all you need. I quite like these ones (£25):

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08DJYNSC8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00

 

They give a nice wide-angle field of view, and the built-in mic is reasonable. I have one of those at home on a bracket along with a couple of USB-chargeable LED lights (£23):

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YSF3X8K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

 

The camera and lights all sit with USB cables plugged in on a bracket that can be swivelled around - you could get maybe an angle-poise style bracket to stick the camera on, letting the teacher bring the camera in closer to whatever was being viewed.

[SamanthaD]

One thing with PTZ cameras, check they can point directly down (when ceiling mounted!). Just installed a Logitech Rally cam to do a dual role function (ceiling visualiser and normal PTZ work) and we've had to mount the camera at an angle so we can get a straight down shot. Makes the install look a bit messy but it works.

 

If you want pictures of the Eye-14 in-situ I can post some tomorrow.

[SamanthaD]

One other thing to note - you're putting this over peoples heads. If you jerry rig a product not designed to be suspended and it fails and knocks someone on the head, you're the one going to be sued, not the school. Compare the price of the correct piece of kit over a head injury lawsuit, and bear in mind that'll be your money, not the schools.

 

Buy the right thing.

[caffrey]

I'm going to need a better understanding of what they actually need I think, webcam on a stick is exactly what I'm thinking but they mentioned overhead

 

Can that logitech PTZ be mounted on the ceiling ?

[mavhc]

First question is always Why?

 

"Hello Mr Ford, can we have a faster horse?"

[caffrey]

One other thing to note - you're putting this over peoples heads. If you jerry rig a product not designed to be suspended and it fails and knocks someone on the head, you're the one going to be sued, not the school. Compare the price of the correct piece of kit over a head injury lawsuit, and bear in mind that'll be your money, not the schools.

 

Buy the right thing.

 

Totally agree, but jerry rigging is par for the norm for most schools

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

First question is always Why?

 

"Hello Mr Ford, can we have a faster horse?"

 

I guess to demo cooking to a screen for pupils sat down

[mavhc]

So first thing is what area does it need to cover, then you can work out the FOV.

 

Then how is it being displayed? What resolution is required?

 

Does it need to move? Zoom?

[chazzy2501]

They do exist they hang like a projector from the celling. motorised mirrors for moving and a lamp to illuminate stuff. You can network them so it's a nice no clutter approach.

 

 

I saw some on ebay a while ago, they looked pretty cool. Expensive though.. I'll see if I can find them again.

 

https://www.wolfvision.com/wolf/bro_ceiling3_e.pdf

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WolfVision-VZ-C12-Ceiling-Visualizer-BRAND-NEW-RRP-16000-greatly-reduced/203230851951?hash=item2f5180b36f:g:Ir4AAOSw1h9dr2D8

 

 

 

EDIT: removed NDIS claim as I was wrong.

Edited February 25, 2021 by chazzy2501

[caffrey]

One thing with PTZ cameras, check they can point directly down (when ceiling mounted!). Just installed a Logitech Rally cam to do a dual role function (ceiling visualiser and normal PTZ work) and we've had to mount the camera at an angle so we can get a straight down shot. Makes the install look a bit messy but it works.

 

If you want pictures of the Eye-14 in-situ I can post some tomorrow.

 

Pics would be nice if it's no problem. I've just noticed the rallys have a ceiling mount kit

[SamanthaD]

Pics would be nice if it's no problem. I've just noticed the rallys have a ceiling mount kit

I'm going in to sign off an install we've just had done with Rallys and an Eye-14, so will post them up when I can. Not in a medical setting for once so I can share the pics!

[msi_school]

At a previous school the food department wanted a set up with three cameras and a vision mixer, which initially made me roll my eyes but I got a CCTV company to install them and the results were very good.

 

Remember that anything in a kitchen especially above a hob is going to get covered in grease and food residue.

[dhicks]

Can that logitech PTZ be mounted on the ceiling ?

 

The one we have is in our main hall, on a mic stand, but I'm fairly sure it's being used by another school ceiling-mounted - I'll see if I can get an image. It's not a big or heavy device, it's light enough to sit on a standard mic stand with a simple thread adaptor from mic to camera mount screw size. Then again, that webcam I linked to could also be ceiling-mounted with a suitable bracket if you wanted, it has a standard camera-mount thread on the underside which also flips out at 180 degrees, so you could mount it right-way-up on a ceiling with a simple screw mount.

[dhicks]

The one we have is in our main hall

 

...hmmm, just been down to the hall to check, and it's not there any more...

[caffrey]

...hmmm, just been down to the hall to check, and it's not there any more...

 

I'm reckoning a really expensive meet setup someone has at home

[SamanthaD]

Totally agree, but jerry rigging is par for the norm for most schools

Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't make it right. And definitely wouldn't stand up in a court of law.

 

Proper ceiling visualisers have a load rated, primary suspension method (bracket) and secondary suspension method (safety wire) that must be installed correctly. I'm from a theatre background where we fly stuff over peoples heads all the time so a little more paranoid about this stuff than most.

 

Unfortunately we're the creators of our own issues here, goodwill and self induced (or SMT induced) pressure to deliver solutions on a budget have lead to an attitude of "can do", which leads to greater expectations with less and less resources. Unless you're prepared to dig your heels in and insist it's done the correct way (and I know that's not easy in secondary education) it's a self perpetuating cycle. But I can almost guarantee no-one else is going to change the system for you.

 

£2000 for a camera is a lot. I know that, and you can do a lot elsewhere with that amount of cash. But if they're not prepared to buy the correct tools to achieve what they want then it can't be that important, right?

 

/rantover

[caffrey]

Oh I've personally invested a lot of my own time and materials to make things safe for buttons and no cost to the school - I never get appreciated for it though

 

Here's one of my projector installs, offcut of 25mm ply (from home) cut (at home) painted (at home) Don't know why I do it tbh.

 

If I jerry rig, I jerry rig properly

 

[Steve21]

If I jerry rig, I jerry rig properly

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]60988[/ATTACH]

 

You can tell that's a good job, because I was like huh why would you paint wood if it's above the ceiling tile, before realising there was no tile!

 

Steve

[chazzy2501]

I bought one of those ceiling tile projector mounts... turns out there is a 60x60 and a 61x61 standard. getting that 61 into my 60 space took some swearing.

 

looks good though.

[SamanthaD]

Logitech Rally camera mounted above 75" touchscreen

 

 

Wolfvision Eye 14 mounted using ceiling tile grid mount