Employee purchase programme?

[altecsole]

We're trying to move away for providing laptops for teacher and I've been asked about setting up an employee purchase programme where staff can purchase devices and spread the costs a period of time.

 

Does anybody do this and, if so, any recommendations, pitfalls, things to watch out for? We would want to be able to offer a range of devices, from several manufacturers.

 

Many thanks.

[DrBeaker]

How do these work in general? Would you be specifying the spec of the device as to meet minimum standards?

[MatthewL]

To watch out for if its something the organisation is supporting make sure you don't get lumbered with the repair of them when they go wrong.

 

Secondly the thing I find with these types of schemes if the end user always ends up paying over the odds for computer equipment.

[altecsole]

How do these work in general? Would you be specifying the spec of the device as to meet minimum standards?

I've no idea. All of the services that staff need to access are cloud based?

[paulkerton]

This was mooted once at a school I worked at.

Teachers then promptly refused to do anything on equipment that they had purchased themselves, and insisted that they'd only work inside school hours to get anything done on computers. Sure enough all the updates into the MIS they were expected to do fell to pieces. All the admin they had to do digitally didn't get done and all of a sudden they were able to keep their work supplied equipment.

 

I don't see how schools think this will operate. It's like asking them to do driving around for you then refusing to pay their petrol and parking.

Again a school I worked in did that, and no one would go on courses because of it. Don't expect people to go out of pocket for work purposes. You're essentially cutting their wage doing that.

[flyinghaggis]

The question would be why are staff being provided with laptops?

 

Are they to be used whilst in school or is there an expectation staff will work from home because if that's the case then it's going to be pretty hard for the school to argue staff should spend their own money on the devices!

Edited May 19, 2020 by flyinghaggis

[altecsole]

The question would be why are staff being provided with laptops?

 

Are they to be used whilst in school or is there an expectation staff will work from home because if that's the case then it's going to be pretty hard for the school to argue staff should spend their own money on the devices!

It all started with the 'Laptops for teachers' scheme back in 2002. Since then, there has been an expectation from staff that they will be supplied with a laptop. I've no problem with that, provided it's used to do work. However, with our budget as it is, it's becoming very difficult to supply laptops for all members of staff - even refurbished ones. Plus, we have a number of roles are filled by part-time staff. So, a full-time member of staff will decide that they only want to work three days per week. The school allows it and then employ somebody for two days per week and we are asked to provide a laptop for them both.

[paulkerton]

It all started with the 'Laptops for teachers' scheme back in 2002. Since then, there has been an expectation from staff that they will be supplied with a laptop. I've no problem with that, provided it's used to do work. However, with our budget as it is, it's becoming very difficult to supply laptops for all members of staff - even refurbished ones. Plus, we have a number of roles are filled by part-time staff. So, a full-time member of staff will decide that they only want to work three days per week. The school allows it and then employ somebody for two days per week and we are asked to provide a laptop for them both.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to say that staff are only provided a laptop to use at home if they are working on a 30+ hour contract (or whatever the teacher equivalent is)

Or if they have machines in the classroom, wouldn't it again be easier to remove those and have the expectation be that they connect their laptop device to whatever screen/projector is in the room when they enter?

Or for part-time members, have laptop devices that stay on site that they can borrow when they're in work?

 

How do you guarantee that the user isn't filling their personal device with viruses and malware and then transferring all that fun into your site?

Edited May 19, 2020 by paulkerton

[altecsole]

Wouldn't it be easier to say that staff are only provided a laptop to use at home if they are working on a 30+ hour contract (or whatever the teacher equivalent is)

Or if they have machines in the classroom, wouldn't it again be easier to remove those and have the expectation be that they connect their laptop device to whatever screen/projector is in the room when they enter?

Or for part-time members, have laptop devices that stay on site that they can borrow when they're in work?

 

How do you guarantee that the user isn't filling their personal device with viruses and malware and then transferring all that fun into your site?

 

Full-time staff do get priority over part-time staff, but it depends what department it is.

 

We have teacher PCs in every classroom, with a standard setup. Staff much prefer this. When we allowed staff to use their own laptop we had a lot more support calls for things not working.

 

An on-site selection of laptops sounds like a good idea, but I fear that they'd be borrowed and held on to.

[Primus]

You cannot treat part time staff differently to full time staff - if a full time member of staff needs a laptop then even a 0.2 member of staff needs a laptop!

[DrBeaker]

This was mooted once at a school I worked at.

Teachers then promptly refused to do anything on equipment that they had purchased themselves, and insisted that they'd only work inside school hours to get anything done on computers. Sure enough all the updates into the MIS they were expected to do fell to pieces. All the admin they had to do digitally didn't get done and all of a sudden they were able to keep their work supplied equipment.

 

I don't see how schools think this will operate. It's like asking them to do driving around for you then refusing to pay their petrol and parking.

Again a school I worked in did that, and no one would go on courses because of it. Don't expect people to go out of pocket for work purposes. You're essentially cutting their wage doing that.

 

The question would be why are staff being provided with laptops?

 

Are they to be used whilst in school or is there an expectation staff will work from home because if that's the case then it's going to be pretty hard for the school to argue staff should spend their own money on the devices!

 

This is always interesting as there's a bunch of other threads on Edgueek about similar things and it seems the same issues get raised time and time again

 

* Laptops being lost

* What if the teacher forgets it and who is expected to have a spare (if there's even any money for that).

* What about if a teacher calls in sick - what's the supply teacher supposed to use?

 

A PC in the classroom is more reliable, supports WoL etc, more powerful, more upgradeble, less likely to be damaged/left at home etc. My personal preference for me for IT people is a decent laptop with proper docking station but they're not made anymore like the old docks. For teachers, it's a PC due to the reasons above.

 

But it's the same argument with IT people currently expected to work from home as it is with teachers and laptops - are we supposed to use our own equipment to do work stuff? I think that's a bit unfair. E.g. I've had to shell out £30 for a new laptop battery - are they going to pay for that?

 

Especially in state schools where is the money coming from?

Edited May 19, 2020 by DrBeaker

[Andrew_C]

I don't think anyone else has touched on this; beware a tax implication. Unless the laptop is used solely for work, it might become a 'benefit in kind'.

[Primus]

I don't think anyone else has touched on this; beware a tax implication. Unless the laptop is used solely for work, it might become a 'benefit in kind'.

 

HMRC have clarified this - quite some time ago - as long as the primary use of the laptop is for work purposes there is no BIK due and they've been quite clear they have zero interest in getting involved in anything to do with work laptops and the question of them not being used for work etc.

[flyinghaggis]

At my workplace the school does offer ~50% of the cost towards an entry level laptop (£300-400). However, in order to get that you have to write a letter to the headmaster stating what work duties/tasks you'll be carrying out on it and how it will benefit the school contributing towards it! So they will help out but you kind of have to volunteer to do work outside of school in return for it!

 

Though I actually need a new computer I'm hesitant to take them up on the offer as it sounds like a potentially poisoned chalice!

Edited May 20, 2020 by flyinghaggis

[jmak]

At my workplace the school does offer ~50% of the cost towards an entry level laptop (£300-400). However, in order to get that you have to write a letter to the headmaster stating what work duties/tasks you'll be carrying out on it and how it will benefit the school contributing towards it! So they will help out but you kind of have to volunteer to do work outside of school in return for it!

 

Though I actually need a new computer I'm hesitant to take them up on the offer as it sounds like a potentially poisoned chalice!

It might be more to do with the point that @Primus make above, so that there's an audit trail in case HMRC came calling - or because it was something governors stipulated when they made the offer years ago.

 

OTOH depends how much the £200 would make. Not certain I'd take them up on that unless I was already using my own kit to do with from home.

[paulkerton]

You cannot treat part time staff differently to full time staff - if a full time member of staff needs a laptop then even a 0.2 member of staff needs a laptop!

If you're providing them the equipment to do the job by providing pooled laptops, then you can. If they're part time they don't have the same needs as a full-time worker.

But fine, buy them a much cheaper device then.

[Primus]

If you're providing them the equipment to do the job by providing pooled laptops, then you can. If they're part time they don't have the same needs as a full-time worker.

But fine, buy them a much cheaper device then.

 

The law says you cannot treat part time workers less favourably than full time workers.

 

If a full time teacher needs a laptop then a part time teacher needs a laptop.

[paulkerton]

The law says you cannot treat part time workers less favourably than full time workers.

If a full time teacher needs a laptop then a part time teacher needs a laptop.

 

If they're part time because they're job sharing - which is almost inevitably the case, then they don't need their own individual device, they can share the equipment.

Like I said, buy them a cheaper laptop then. Give them a second hand one. They're still getting a device that way.

Edited May 21, 2020 by paulkerton

[Primus]

If they're part time because they're job sharing - which is almost inevitably the case, then they don't need their own individual device, they can share the equipment.

Like I said, buy them a cheaper laptop then. Give them a second hand one. They're still getting a device that way.

 

Nope that’s not what the law says.

[paulkerton]

Nope that’s not what the law says.

Well clearly we read it differently.

But you can happily buy them cheaper devices or provide them second hand ones. Nothing in the law that says that.

[Steve21]

Nope that’s not what the law says.

 

There's a difference between two part time staff, and job-shares (who are acting as part-time) etc though

 

Job-shares would share equipment, two part time staff would have separate.

 

If that makes sense?

 

Steve

[Primus]

There is no difference between job share and part time staff - in the eyes of the law they are part time staff.

 

The law literally says you cannot treat part time workers less favourably than full time workers - that's not my interpretation, that is the law.

 

The legislation is The Part-Time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations (2000) if you want to look it up.

[Steve21]

The law literally says you cannot treat part time workers less favourably than full time workers - that's not my interpretation, that is the law.

 

Well in all fairness I'd argue it is your interpretation. If you work 5 days a week you have a laptop for 5 days, if you work 2.5 days you have a laptop for 2.5 days (this is then moved to the other person working 2.5 days). That is sharing the equipment, nothing in the legislation says they need their own?

 

Steve

[Primus]

So full time staff hand back the laptop on weekends?

[Steve21]

So full time staff hand back the laptop on weekends?

 

That's pedantic rather than legislation though. You aren't treating staff differently if you're providing them equipment to do the work on site during the contracted hours, which is following the legalisation

 

And even in the case you're saying, you'd end up with the situation that if a job-share wanted to use it at a weekend they'd get it for 1 day each as it's shared, and would need to return it to work. Or then you're going to have to split the weekends between both members of the job share.

 

If you're giving both job-share partners a laptop to use all week and at home, arguable that you're then giving them preference over full-time staff for what they're contracted to do vs benefits, but obviously another story

 

*Edit - As a side note, personally no schools should be giving laptops to any staff to use at home (aside for a set pool to use on the odd occasion)

 

Steve

Edited May 21, 2020 by Steve21