2097 Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Due to current situations we are pushing a password change for all users today to give people 90 days grace. I have noticed on most if not all users who change their password that our start menu layout XML is not applied properly after login . By rebooting the machine or logging off and back on resolved the issue. Has any one else experienced this ? i ticked the box " User must change password at next logon " . Thanks
gomalley Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 Can't say I've experienced it as we havn't forced password resets in a couple of years, current (even before COVID-19) best practice advice from the NCSC/GCHQ was not to force user password periodic resets, so it maybe easier to disable the expiration all together? 1
2097 Posted March 20, 2020 Author Posted March 20, 2020 Can't say I've experienced it as we havn't forced password resets in a couple of years, current (even before COVID-19) best practice advice from the NCSC/GCHQ was not to force user password periodic resets, so it maybe easier to disable the expiration all together? I did consider it , but it was part of the insurance policy we have so had to be enforced . I have done it now any way, But was very very stange.. We are using roaming profiles and the latest 1909. I have to check if it stopped all Group policys or just the start menu.
eddyc Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 I did consider it , but it was part of the insurance policy we have so had to be enforced . I have done it now any way, But was very very stange.. We are using roaming profiles and the latest 1909. I have to check if it stopped all Group policys or just the start menu. We have the exact same issue and I posted about it here: No redirected Start Menu or Start XML after password change https://www.edugeek.net/showthread.php?t=202685 But never got any replies. It’s driving me mad and generates hundreds of helpdesk tickets every 90 days.
2097 Posted March 23, 2020 Author Posted March 23, 2020 Ok i have been able to reproduce this. This only occurs if the user has no profile on the machine . For e.g. if a user logs off and does not reboot the machine , i then reset the password , user re-log's in on the same machine . its fine. If a user has not logged onto the machine ( or the profile has been deleted at reboot) and a password change is required, the start menu is no longer there ( but reappears at next logon) This is something to do with roaming profiles and deleting local profiles. I shall investigate ! - - - Updated - - - We have the exact same issue and I posted about it here: No redirected Start Menu or Start XML after password change https://www.edugeek.net/showthread.php?t=202685 But never got any replies. It’s driving me mad and generates hundreds of helpdesk tickets every 90 days. Take a look above , does yours experience the same issue as that ? are you using roaming profiles etc. 1
eddyc Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 Ok i have been able to reproduce this. This only occurs if the user has no profile on the machine . For e.g. if a user logs off and does not reboot the machine , i then reset the password , user re-log's in on the same machine . its fine. If a user has not logged onto the machine ( or the profile has been deleted at reboot) and a password change is required, the start menu is no longer there ( but reappears at next logon) This is something to do with roaming profiles and deleting local profiles. I shall investigate ! - - - Updated - - - Take a look above , does yours experience the same issue as that ? are you using roaming profiles etc. Yes I’ve just done some experimenting and these scenarios match. Roaming profile, no cached profile, broken start menu on password change Roaming profile, cached profile, no broken start menu on password change. So we are both in the same boat!
2097 Posted March 26, 2020 Author Posted March 26, 2020 Yes I’ve just done some experimenting and these scenarios match. Roaming profile, no cached profile, broken start menu on password change Roaming profile, cached profile, no broken start menu on password change. So we are both in the same boat! Must be something in the Local Appdata , possibly something we can redirect with the profiles. Not at work atm , but will do more testing when in. Possibly this dir C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Shell 1
2097 Posted June 25, 2020 Author Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) Yes I’ve just done some experimenting and these scenarios match. Roaming profile, no cached profile, broken start menu on password change Roaming profile, cached profile, no broken start menu on password change. So we are both in the same boat! As i am in today i am picking this up again. Ok worked out the following Turn Machine on > Change password > Start Menu is Corrupt. Turn Machine on > Logon > Logoff > Change Password , Start Menu is fine. Then tried the following with 2 machines. Turn Machine 1 on > Change password > Start Menu is Corrupt. ( Didn't logoff so the profile didn't get updated) Turn Machine 2 on > Login as normal > Start Menu is Fine. So this doesn't look like its related to any files being stored in the profile. It seems more that the "Change Password" request is stopping something from loading correctly. Also to note . It is loading a corrupt variation of my Start menu , i can see a basic layout. Just all the tiles are missing apart from edge . Also all the start menu its self is missing lots. Also.. This isn't happening on "Mandatory Profiles" just seems to be roaming. Edited June 25, 2020 by 2097
2097 Posted June 25, 2020 Author Posted June 25, 2020 Also.. Changing the password Via AD console also doesn't cause this issue.
2097 Posted June 26, 2020 Author Posted June 26, 2020 Yes I’ve just done some experimenting and these scenarios match. Roaming profile, no cached profile, broken start menu on password change Roaming profile, cached profile, no broken start menu on password change. So we are both in the same boat! Hi Eddy , i hope you are still following this Do you experience this issue with Mandatory profiles also ? I dont . I also dont get it with roaming if the user does not have a profile yet . I think it could be something that stays in the Roaming profile's Registry. Have you managed to find out any more info ?
eddyc Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 Hey! Sorry for the delayed reply! Yes I’m still following with interest. We have exactly the same behaviour as you: Never happens on mandatory Doesn’t happen on roaming profile if there’s no existing profile Breaks if there is a roaming profile and it exists. Very strange isn’t it! I was trying to move from roaming profiles to UEV. To try and resolve this but am struggling to find the time to do that. eddyc Hi Eddy , i hope you are still following this Do you experience this issue with Mandatory profiles also ? I dont . I also dont get it with roaming if the user does not have a profile yet . I think it could be something that stays in the Roaming profile's Registry. Have you managed to find out any more info ?
2097 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Posted July 9, 2020 Hey! Sorry for the delayed reply! Yes I’m still following with interest. We have exactly the same behaviour as you: Never happens on mandatory Doesn’t happen on roaming profile if there’s no existing profile Breaks if there is a roaming profile and it exists. Very strange isn’t it! I was trying to move from roaming profiles to UEV. To try and resolve this but am struggling to find the time to do that. eddyc Thanks for the reply eddy . Could you try the following for me please? Restart PC - Set roaming profile with password change - Login ( make sure it has a corrupt start menu).Dont logoff. Then goto another machine - And logon with the same user , let me know if that machine has a corrupt start menu. This will i hope show us its nothing to do inside the profile. Also what domain controllers are you running ? Server 2019 ?
eddyc Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 Okie dokie I have tired that for you. 1909. User with existing roaming profile. Log them in with password change needed. Set the password. Start Menu and XML is broken Log into a second PC before logging out of the initial PC and all seems to be fine. Interesting side point. Have you got 2004 build on anything? I tried this first on a 2004 build PC (which we are testing with a view of rolling out over the summer) and I was prompted to change my password and the start menu / XML did not break? It would be interesting to see if you have the same thing and if the 2004 build has this issue resolved. eddyc Thanks for the reply eddy . Could you try the following for me please? Restart PC - Set roaming profile with password change - Login ( make sure it has a corrupt start menu).Dont logoff. Then goto another machine - And logon with the same user , let me know if that machine has a corrupt start menu. This will i hope show us its nothing to do inside the profile. Also what domain controllers are you running ? Server 2019 ?
2097 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Posted July 9, 2020 Okie dokie I have tired that for you. 1909. User with existing roaming profile. Log them in with password change needed. Set the password. Start Menu and XML is broken Log into a second PC before logging out of the initial PC and all seems to be fine. Interesting side point. Have you got 2004 build on anything? I tried this first on a 2004 build PC (which we are testing with a view of rolling out over the summer) and I was prompted to change my password and the start menu / XML did not break? It would be interesting to see if you have the same thing and if the 2004 build has this issue resolved. eddyc Very interesting ! i will update a machine and see what happens, as like you all my machines are on 1909. Thanks for trying. Seems we have the EXACT same problem.. So cant be a setup unique to us.
2097 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Posted July 10, 2020 Okie dokie I have tired that for you. 1909. User with existing roaming profile. Log them in with password change needed. Set the password. Start Menu and XML is broken Log into a second PC before logging out of the initial PC and all seems to be fine. Interesting side point. Have you got 2004 build on anything? I tried this first on a 2004 build PC (which we are testing with a view of rolling out over the summer) and I was prompted to change my password and the start menu / XML did not break? It would be interesting to see if you have the same thing and if the 2004 build has this issue resolved. eddyc Yep you are correct, 2004 seems fine with the password reset. Possibly the way to go. I have noticed though that my links to IE11 and File Explorer no longer work on 2004 which i assume is version specific. So the start menu tiles needs amending 1
eddyc Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 Thanks for the confirmation. That is good to know. I only noticed by mistake as I used the wrong PC to test for you! Our plan is to go 2004 and Office 2019 site wide over the summer, so I think we should be grand. I am so glad to finally have this annoying niggly issue resolved. Particularly as every member of staff rings every 90 days to report their broken start menu after a password change! eddyc Yep you are correct, 2004 seems fine with the password reset. Possibly the way to go. I have noticed though that my links to IE11 and File Explorer no longer work on 2004 which i assume is version specific. So the start menu tiles needs amending
2097 Posted July 21, 2020 Author Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the confirmation. That is good to know. I only noticed by mistake as I used the wrong PC to test for you! Our plan is to go 2004 and Office 2019 site wide over the summer, so I think we should be grand. I am so glad to finally have this annoying niggly issue resolved. Particularly as every member of staff rings every 90 days to report their broken start menu after a password change! eddyc I have office 2019 running currently , If you use any custom coded Access files be very careful with it. I had to go back a few revisions to get past various errors. Each update caused different issues. Also if you are using an in-house Exchange don't forget to add the custom registry setting to bypass it trying to connect to office365 first ! And if you use Eset Security like us , This needs updating to the latest client for 2004 to install Edited July 21, 2020 by 2097 1
eddyc Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 I have office 2019 running currently , If you use any custom coded Access files be very careful with it. I had to go back a few revisions to get past various errors. Each update caused different issues. Also if you are using an in-house Exchange don't forget to add the custom registry setting to bypass it trying to connect to office365 first ! And if you use Eset Security like us , This needs updating to the latest client for 2004 to install Thanks for the pointers! Very helpful
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