Advice on strategy on Office 365/Google Classroom

[MrWu]

Hi all

 

Although the school is happy running day to day, and we have new internet and infrastructure upgrade, I feel I have stalled in terms of moving to the cloud

 

Part of it I think I’m still not fully invested / trust that the technology is quite there yet .. I think my manager’s vision which is to have total business continuity if the whole school burns down.

 

So far we have ADFS / office 365.. exchange hybrid, and azure server replication for our SIMS and finance system.

 

File access still mostly local

 

Teaching staff has implemented Google classroom as a separate project and have handed this to IT (it needs a bit of work since the teaching staff went manual user creation as opposed to sims integration (we have just implemented wonde to sync class from sims as first step when we took over)

 

On the office 365 side, WebDAV and drive mapping was suggested (since management ideally want all files to go cloud - but how about heavy media users or music classes ? Files are huge - we do have 1Gb lease line but I still can’t picture all file access done through internet day to day .. I still don’t trust WebDAV drive mapping since it’s not supported by MS

 

I feel responsible for not having a clear vision on how to move my school forward to be honest ...(my long illness did not help and I fell a bit behind these 2 years too.

 

Would really appreciate any advice and how you have implemented yours (esp mixed 365 and google ... thanks as always ..

[chaplic]

Move your network towards being nothing more than an internet connection (which basically fulfils your managers wishes for free)

 

Don't do webdav. Onedrive files on demand and being able to sync teamsites via policy covers a lot of bases. Use known folder move to have mydocs etc inside onedrive. Look at app attach if you have nonpersistent desktops. Still need storage, but a least it doesn't need backed up. If you really do need traditional file storage consider azure file sync to have old stuff shipped off the cloud and recent stuff on SSD.

 

Get rid of Exchange Hybrid, remove all that complexity

Get rid of ADFS, use password hash sync with seamless single sign on - again, removing complexity

Get your Office365 SecureScore up.

 

Start doing some management via intune and Azure AD Hybrid join. Don't plan to completely move away from GPO/AD just yet unless you really enjoy pain.

[MrWu]

Move your network towards being nothing more than an internet connection (which basically fulfils your managers wishes for free)

 

Don't do webdav. Onedrive files on demand and being able to sync teamsites via policy covers a lot of bases. Use known folder move to have mydocs etc inside onedrive. Look at app attach if you have nonpersistent desktops. Still need storage, but a least it doesn't need backed up. If you really do need traditional file storage consider azure file sync to have old stuff shipped off the cloud and recent stuff on SSD.

 

Get rid of Exchange Hybrid, remove all that complexity

Get rid of ADFS, use password hash sync with seamless single sign on - again, removing complexity

Get your Office365 SecureScore up.

 

Start doing some management via intune and Azure AD Hybrid join. Don't plan to completely move away from GPO/AD just yet unless you really enjoy pain.

 

Thanks for this, will take a look.. Getting rid of ADFS is an interesting one, you can achieve SSO without that?

[mavhc]

Azure AD Connect will install seamless single sign on, of course that means you're stuck with Azure for auth forever, can't switch to another provider, so your GSuite logins will need to be via Azure.

 

How often does the school burn down? More often than your internet connection fails?

 

Don't see the point of syncing multi GB media course files to a cloud, just slows things down

[TechMonkey]

Yep. We went ADConnect and it is so much easier and actually gives you full redundancy, rather than having to update records if your site goes down.

 

Be careful getting rid of Exchange Hybrid. As much of a pain it is having the synching and remembering where things are entered if you go fully cloud it does remove all Exchange attributes from our AD so suddenly you have no email addresses in AD or proxyaddress so have to add them manually. I guess this only affects things syncing directly from AD rather than Azure, but it could be a deal breaker.

[TechMonkey]

How often does the school burn down? More often than your internet connection fails?

 

Sounds like you need to sort your Internet connection!

 

If your school burns down I bet everyone will be incredibly happy that they can still access their files, more than they were annoyed by having to twiddle their thumbs for a couple of hours if the internet goes down.

[mavhc]

You still have off site backups, they can still access their files

[TechMonkey]

You still have off site backups, they can still access their files

 

Once you get new hardware, a new place to setup and restore it all. With G-Suite or O365, everyone carries on as if nothing has happened, where ever they are.

[TwistedHelixis]

We are G Suite cloud based primary school and even if the internet goes down, the staff can still access teaching resources using one of the schools mobile phones, which can be used as a hotspot if needed. Also some files have been set as offline, so they have access to those anyway.

[mavhc]

Once you get new hardware, a new place to setup and restore it all. With G-Suite or O365, everyone carries on as if nothing has happened, where ever they are.

 

You rent a VM. Still need client machines, a LAN, and internet access though.

 

But still, if your school is burning down that often that you need to completely change the entire network, you have bigger problems

[MrWu]

Thanks for the input so far guys.

 

I do feel that day to day running is more important than worrying about a plane hitting the school.

 

So my issue is at the moment

 

School waited so long that teaching side implemented their own google classroom that is largely manual uploaded data a bit of a mess and I need to automate and sync this with AD and SIMS

 

My ADFS office 365 solution is half baked and no sense of where it needs to go, SMT still sticking to mapped drives, attachments and nested NTfs security. Bursars idea of cloud solution is to shunt everything into cloud and if a plane hits us, 10 minutes and the school is up and running elsewhere in the cloud... elephant in room, what about media students or students doing music with Gb size files?

 

The trouble is, sounds fantastic to governors if they say oh our school is completely DR in case of an act of god .. but day to day try telling the teacher it will take 10 minutes to begin a graphics lesson to download photoshop work from OneDrive / cloud but hey if the school burns down you can still run your DT lesson 10 minutes later in a tent !

[mavhc]

No point caring about what some non technical person thinks.

 

Where are your backups stored?

 

Do they work?

 

Why did they build the school next to the pilot training centre?

 

Ask to see their plans for what they're going to do when the school is destroyed, then give them a year to make those plans, because they don't exist now, and then see what the best solution is to work with those plans.

 

Seamless Single Sign on is magic, but it will affect how you setup GSuite. Either way I think you'll need to sync AD to GSuite, so set that up while you wait.

[TechMonkey]

You rent a VM. Still need client machines, a LAN, and internet access though.

 

Yep, you rent a VM and have to restore all your files, home directories and shared areas. Would you like to hazard a guess at how long that will take from a remote backup? You'd still have to setup a LAN and Internet connection as you say.

 

Welcome to the joys of O365 and G-Suite, no you don't need a LAN or to setup a Internet connection. Staff can work from home, from a cafe, from a hotel, from anywhere with a wifi signal. Teachers could set work or even, in the short-term, teach via Hangouts/Teams/Skype and get their class together online.

 

I'm not sure where anyone has said you need to completely change your whole network, but if you don't feel you need to plan for disaster recovery then all power to you in your confidence of your local fire brigade and fire suppression systems, but I'm not sure why you are in this thread.

 

@MrWu Obviously playing to day to day is important but if day to day can also work to your advantage in a situation or even improve your day to day be even better, then it is a win-win.

 

It depends on your budget and how you want to go about it. To sync data you can get free tools that will sync AD to G-Suite, or something like Salamander can do a lot. Alternatively get AzureAD set up and then use that as your SSO for Google. Personally I would drop ADFS and move to ADConnect if you go this route. Then make a plan, but that will depend on your specific site. Do you think moving shared areas would go best or home directories? Is there budget to get something like Cloud Drive Mapper? As that will then allow SMT to keep their mapped drives. Alternatively I think there is a free Google tool but I don't know its features. This is something you need to plan for now, not in a year, as it could take up to a year to get your Shared areas moved across.

Speak to your teachers and see if they are wedded to the idea or Google Classrooms, if they are then I would move that way, teacher led.

 

Just to put your mind at rest, we are running all home directories from the cloud and if we had 10 minute wait times I would have been lynched. No one notices. There are some concessions. Mail-merges currently don't work across cloud so we had to create an onsite area for staff to save data for merges. We have media drives onsite but generally pupils use their home drives. We have been very cautious, running any changes on ourselves first, then opening it up to some willing guinea pigs and then running a migration plan for the rest of staff. As ever the three important things to think about is Communication, Communication, Communication. Keep staff informed, let them know what isn't happening yet, keep it simple and most importantly repeat. Often.

 

Even as a non-technical person, your Bursar isn't far off the mark. Though, as mentioned, it is a bit more involved than just shunting stuff so keep their expectations realistic.

 

If I was you, first steps would be to sit down, work out a rough plan and then get time with SLT and lay it out, warts and all. Get their input and thoughts and go from there. Go all out with costs and see what they think. If they baulk then at least you have the other free tools to fall back on, but if they give you the go ahead then you know they are committed to it.

Edited December 18, 2019 by TechMonkey

[mavhc]

Before you do anything you need to see their actual plans for how the school will work when it's burned down.

 

Why would restoring your cloud backup to your cloud VM take a long time? 1Gbps = 7.5GB/min, 2 hours/TB

[TechMonkey]

Before you do anything you need to see their actual plans for how the school will work when it's burned down.

 

Why would restoring your cloud backup to your cloud VM take a long time? 1Gbps = 7.5GB/min, 2 hours/TB

 

Yes seeing the plans helps, but Business Continuity has commonality no matter the plan, plus their plans likely will not cover the specifics, so our job is to be ready to make services and files available as soon as possible no matter the issue. Name me a situation where, during an incident, being able to access your files instantly, working as you are used to without interruption, would be a bad thing? It isn't just about the school burning down, what if you had no access to the site? For example a body was found and the police refused to let anyone on during an investigation? What if your power was down for any length of time? What if there was flooding? etc etc etc. No, you can't plan for everything, but planning for the likely scenarios that may hit the school will hold you in good stead. Not events, scenarios, which there are only a few. And it won't hurt your reputation the first time something happens and you can whip your phone out and access everything, rather than shrug and mumble how no one asked for it or showed you the plans.

 

I'd be interested in where those transfer speed numbers come from as they sound like theoretical peak rates. Also most offsite backup services I have seen have slow restore so I'd be impressed if a service is giving you a full Gig download. But again, which is better, users carrying on as if nothing happened or taking a minimum of 2 hours to restore files plus the time it takes to spin up a VM, get the networking sorted, get your users devices connected and then map their drives?

[mavhc]

Depends on the cost of doing something different. Costs include security, lower speed, added complexity, and money.

 

Still need to know what the school's plan is, then you suggest ways of implementing it, and costs, and then someone decides if it's worth it.

[TechMonkey]

Yes, I understand the meaning of costs and the costs potentially involved, but all I'm hearing are 101 reasons not to change, not to develop and not to help the school move on. Which, funnily, is often a charge I see levelled at teaching staff here.

 

Or, and call me radical, we as IT professionals could be proactive and plan to implement things shown to have benefits across the industry, build them into our budgets if there is a monetary cost included, build them into our future development plans and show management what needs to be to done to implement the requests they have made. Planning is not something that should only happen when something needs to be implemented. 6 years ago I put into action a plan to make all switches POE. We didn't have any POE devices at the time and there was no direct plans for needing them. Now we have cameras, phones, access control, speakers and various odds and ends and I know with almost certainty that when I am asked to implement something, usually at short notice, our department can deliver rather than being labelled a department who says no. If we had decided to implement POE as those projects had come along we would have either had a piecemeal implementation, had to run major projects alongside each other and upped the cost of those projects dramatically, r wasted money, time and added complexity by buying loads of injectors.

 

The alternative is not planning, being passive, wondering why everything comes at once and as a surprise, blaming everyone else for their lack of planning and finding you and your school are behind and have to make massive leaps.

 

As I said before, in what situation would being able to access your files from anywhere, at anytime, with no lead time and without changing how you work, be a bad thing?

[mavhc]

When you're limited to 1000 or 100Mbps connection to the server total, down from 10 Gb. When you rely on no one breaking the fiber cable. When any of the 4 billion people with internet access find one of your teacher's passwords in the 9 billion passwords found leaked online so far. When someone starts charging more. When there's a DoS on you, your isp, your cloud provider.

 

I work for a school that's massively distributed, they use GSuite. And a school where 99.999% of file access is from inside the school, they have a server.

 

You have a budget? Lucky.

 

All our PoE switches are only 100Mbps, but as they're all in one cabinet it's easy to make any port PoE 100MBps or 1Gbps as required. I assume yours are more distributed.

[PotNoodleTech]

Implementing a change like this is one fell swoop is a really hard way of doing it. To tough to get everyone on board.

 

We introduced it gently, it's taken a couple of years to get off the ground but now we're really flying with Google Classroom and Chromebooks.

 

1. Have someone take ownership of trying to run with it. It really helps to have one expert user use it day in day out.

2. Set up Google Tennancy

3. Introduce it to staff, show them how it can benefit them and make their lives easier. (It was an easy pitch here as google is so much easier to use than the old Moodle we were on.)

4. Optional but we bought staff a chromebook each so wherever they are in the world they can get to their classes and work. This has worked excellently.

5. With the above 4 done, teachers will start creating classrooms and start using it with the pupils.

6. Eventually momentum gets up, teachers learn from other teachers cool easy ways of doing things, pupils come to expect things to be on google so they can access outside of school etc.

7. Optional but we started down the road of 1:1 pupil Chromebooks. Doing one year group per year as funds are tight. (currently have year 7 and 8 with 1:!) Having every pupil have a Chromebook in every classroom is a bit of game changer, especially if the teachers are already using classroom.

 

Next step for me is, as you say get all the user documents and shared areas in the cloud. You can't really do this bit unless you've done the above as people won't want to move to a brand new system *just* to access a document (which they could already access easily on the old system).

 

My 2p.

Edited December 20, 2019 by PotNoodleTech

[TwistedHelixis]

Next step for me is, as you say get all the user documents and shared areas in the cloud. You can't really do this bit unless you've done the above as people won't want to move to a brand new system *just* to access a document (which they could already access easily on the old system).

Well we did it the way you said not to as it was basically free and gets everyone using Google. We migrated email, calendars, documents etc to G Suite, the staff kept using the same equipment so no massive costs, and as we had installed file stream all their files were in a mapped drive.

 

Slowly as hardware runs out we are replacing it with tablets and Chrombooks

[TechMonkey]

Well we did it the way you said not to as it was basically free and gets everyone using Google. We migrated email, calendars, documents etc to G Suite, the staff kept using the same equipment so no massive costs, and as we had installed file stream all their files were in a mapped drive.

 

Slowly as hardware runs out we are replacing it with tablets and Chrombooks

 

As ever, depends on the school, the teachers, the management and the IT department. We went the same as TwistedHelixis, the having mapped drives so the staff and pupils knew no difference was a big positive though. And in fact we had to try and slow some staff down as they were starting to share files to collaborate before we had got all the files transferred, they were starting to store files in the new shared areas before we had them fully sorted and some people were getting a bit cloud happy. This made the more hesitant staff scared as it was all changing too quickly for them and we had to make a big announcement about what things weren't changing and our timetable as the rumours started flying, like how the shared areas were going to disappear next week!!

[mavhc]

Where do you buy lesson resources in GSuite format?

[TechMonkey]

Where do you buy lesson resources in GSuite format?

 

... Huh?

[mavhc]

... Huh?

 

Teachers tend to buy/download resources that come in MS Word format for printing and filling in perhaps, who's selling the GSuite versions of that?

 

The Edexcel CS GCSE resources are all in MS Word format, terrible to convert to GDocs for use with Classroom for example

[TechMonkey]

Teachers tend to buy/download resources that come in MS Word format for printing and filling in perhaps, who's selling the GSuite versions of that?

 

The Edexcel CS GCSE resources are all in MS Word format, terrible to convert to GDocs for use with Classroom for example

 

Never had an issue with Gdocs reading Word documents. Worst case is if they have some advanced features used but teaching resources don't tend to do that. Obviously macros won't work, but that isn't a bad thing! If there are issues you'll just have to make staff aware they need to start getting better quality resources.