Microsoft Event 2019-10-02

[DJ-1701]

A Microsoft Event is happening in the next 25 minutes (10:00 ET / 15:00 BST).

 

Given the hyperlink it looks like it's going to be looking at their Surface range, but who knows, might talk about the next update to Windows 10.

 

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/microsoftevent

[DJ-1701]

It has begun...

 

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/microsoftevent

[Arthur]

The Surface Neo and Duo look cool.

 

www.theverge.com/2019/10/2/20885196/microsoft-surface-event-news-products-announcements-updates-highlights-windows-10

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Arthur

[Arthur]

 

[flyinghaggis]

Windows RT's back!

 

The ARM surface pro x sounds intriguing but I'm skeptical after the last ARM Windows effort. At least this time it has x86 emulation built into it which will allow for better compatability. I'd still wager the performance will be terrible and the emulation full of bugs though!

 

The dual screen stuff looks pretty gimmicky honestly. Seems pretty pointless on first impression. The devices look really fragile with that hinge as well.

 

I like the sound of the 15" surface laptop 3 with the Ryzen chipset though. That looks far more promising.

Edited October 2, 2019 by flyinghaggis

[mrbios]

The dual screen stuff looks pretty gimmicky honestly. Seems pretty pointless on first impression. The devices look really fragile with that hinge as well.

 

I can't wait to get my hands on the surface duo, I've always wanted a true multi tasking capable phone.

 

Dual screen handheld devices have always been gimmicky and that's always been down to the way the folding mechanism works, but given that surface engineers seem to be obsessed with thin + strong hinges, i'm pretty excited to see how these turn out.

[Dos_Box]

And the Duo runs Android - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/02/microsoft_surface_phone/

I think Microsoft have made a sensible choice here with two screens given foldable screens reported reliability problems. Once these have been sorted out it wouldn't be too big a jump for Microsoft to make a future version with a single foldable screen.

I also think two screens allows for a slimmer device. I'll be very interested to see these when released.

[DJ-1701]

Windows RT's back!

 

I don't think so... it sounds like they are allowing programs to be installed on these devices were RT would only allow Apps.

 

Though of course the phone, which is Android wouldn't be able to run those... but at least it will have a much wider collection of Apps.

[Brimstone]

 

 

Meh....I bet MS must have loved him sitting infront of iMacs doing these posts.

 

As for the dual screens tablets

 

I can already use split screen on any up to date iPad and work on 2 separate apps or documents side by side.

[DJ-1701]

Meh....I bet MS must have loved him sitting infront of iMacs doing these posts.

 

It's ok, the first video, the Mac was an old turned off unit. The second video... it's running Windows XP... errrr... honest gov...

[supportman]

Surface Laptop 3 looks amazing, I have the 2 and its the best laptop I have ever owned, even better than the macbook air it replaced!

 

Cant wait to get my hands on it.

[Dos_Box]

Surface Laptop 3 looks amazing, I have the 2 and its the best laptop I have ever owned, even better than the macbook air it replaced!

 

Cant wait to get my hands on it.

 

Oooh! Those Ryzens looks very interesting.

[flyinghaggis]

Oooh! Those Ryzens looks very interesting.

 

I noticed the review embargo lifted yesterday on the 15" Ryzen model. Initial impressions are kind of mixed though. Most reviews seem to reckon that unless you want a 15" model the 13.5" Intel Surface Laptop 3 is looking like it'll be the better choice. The review embargo hasn't been lifted yet on the 13.5" model yet though for some reason?

 

I think Microsoft raised expectations too high by talking up the special sauce custom Ryzen chips!

[supportman]

I heard only the 13.5 has Wifi 6... Is that true?

[DalekSec]

I heard only the 13.5 has Wifi 6... Is that true?

 

[TABLE=width: 100%]

[TR]

[TH=align: left]Wireless[/TH]

[TD] Bluetooth® Wireless 5.0 technology

 

Surface Laptop 3 13.5”:

Wi-Fi 6: 802.11ax compatible

 

Surface Laptop 3 15”:

Wi-Fi 5: 802.11ac compatible[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Ref: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/surface-laptop-3/8VFGGH1R94TM?activetab=techspecs&ocid=FY2010ANN-Beat2_ema_rmc_sur_50275_2054889_11851_en-uk_HER&zuid=1049A06CA9A15A1C6C87D15E3A74226A14

 

Correct!

 

Also ... it comes with Windows Home..... for some reason. That's put me off it straight away.

Edited October 23, 2019 by DalekSec

[flyinghaggis]

I was having a play with the 13" surface laptop 3 at the weekend and it's a lovely piece of kit. Screen is great, keyboard and trackpad are also spot on.

 

Was kind of tempted as I could do with a new laptop. The only real criticism I had of it (other than Microsoft gouging on price for SSD upgrades) was the lack of thunderbolt 3 support. It's an odd omission as most other 13" ultraportables in the same segment have it.

 

 

There's also rumors of black Friday deals on most MS product lines so if you're interested in any of the Surface hardware is probably worth waiting until then.

Edited November 4, 2019 by flyinghaggis

[mavhc]

Whether the ARM systems are too slow depends on a) raw power of the chips, b) how much you need to emulate x86 code.

 

Did they add the ability to emulate x64 code yet?

 

Main issue with WinRT was you couldn't add it to a domain, only reason to pick Windows tablets is if it works with all your other stuff.

[Arthur]

Did they add the ability to emulate x64 code yet?

Unfortunately not. Developers will need to create a 64-bit ARM version of their app, since 64-bit x86 apps don't run at all on the Surface Pro X.

 

www.theverge.com/2019/11/5/20948092/microsoft-surface-pro-x-review-arm-windows-10-apps-features-specs-price

 

Mostly, ARM processors are used on phones and tablets. On Windows PCs, they’ve run fairly poorly so far. So Microsoft co-developed a processor with Qualcomm to improve the graphics performance over and above what Qualcomm’s 8cx could do. Microsoft’s version of the chip is called the SQ1, and by and large it performs better than my expectation.

 

Not that my expectations were very high — other ARM laptops have been dog slow. But the core of Windows 10 runs just fine for me. It’s the full version of Windows 10, by the way, not some RT or S version. At the extreme, I have had several apps open — including two different browsers with a dozen or so tabs open in each — and nothing ground to a halt.

 

There are still occasional, confounding slowdowns, especially when waking from sleep. In general, I just didn’t have as strong a feel for what would and would not bog down this computer — with an Intel chip, I know what to expect.

 

But it wasn’t fast, certainly not as fast as an equivalently priced Intel device would be. Still, the main problem with this ARM chip doesn’t come from slowness with Windows itself, but with many of the apps.

 

I need to give some brief context about why app compatibility is a thing on the Surface Pro X. The fact that the following paragraphs are even necessary is a little damning.

 

When a developer codes an app, it needs to be compiled, which optimizes the code in several ways. One of those ways is ensuring it is designed for the right processor. Before you even consider the Surface Pro X, there’s a four-part matrix you need to learn. On one axis you have 32 bit versus 64 bit — it refers to a class of processor, and of course 64 bit is faster. On the other axis you have ARM versus x86 — that’s the architecture, and x86 is what Intel runs.

 

With me so far? Well, because the Surface Pro X runs a 64-bit ARM processor, the apps that run best on it are 64-bit ARM apps, of which there aren’t very many beyond what Microsoft itself has made and a smattering of others in the Microsoft app store. (Since Windows on ARM is so new, we can skip over worrying about 32-bit ARM apps.)

 

Most Windows apps are compiled to x86, though. So Microsoft built an emulation layer for Windows to run them. That emulation layer is able to run 32-bit Windows apps, but not more modern 64-bit apps. Luckily, most of the apps you’re probably wondering about right now are still available in 32-bit versions.

 

The big one is Chrome. It runs on the Surface Pro X, but I wouldn’t say it sprints. It is discernibly slower than the 64-bit ARM version of Edge on this computer — that’s been true even on Intel computers, but it’s a little slower here. Still, totally usable.

 

In fact, most of the apps you’ll use day to day are 32-bit x86 apps and they tend to run just a step behind what they’d be on an Intel computer. That includes Microsoft’s own Office apps, by the way, as well as the beta version of the next big update for the Edge browser that’s arriving in January.

 

More intense apps like Photoshop do technically run on this computer, but they’re so slow they may as well not. Microsoft says that Adobe is committed to creating 64-bit ARM versions of its Creative Cloud apps, but there’s no timeline for when that’ll happen.

 

Gaming is — quite literally — a non-starter. Fortnite or Xbox Game Pass games simply aren’t installable and while you can install Steam, good luck running anything you download from it. The only gaming that’s possible here are the casual games you’ll find in the Microsoft Store, like Angry Birds 2.

 

The problem gets worse, though: 64-bit x86 apps won’t run at all on the Surface Pro X. That ironically means some of the most advanced Windows apps can’t work here. It’s particularly depressing for me because Adobe Lightroom (both Lightroom Classic and the more modern Lightroom CC) can’t be installed on the Surface Pro X and several of the popular alternatives from indie developers are also only available as 64-bit x86 apps.

 

Everybody has one or two apps they absolutely need to do their job. With the Surface Pro X, there’s no real way to know if it will run well (or at all) without doing a ton of research ahead of time. Dropbox, for example, only works as an insular “S-Mode” app and can’t sync your files automatically.

 

Heck, even Microsoft’s own app store doesn’t properly filter out incompatible apps when you visit it from this computer. You can (and I did!) buy apps in the Microsoft Store and only find out after the fact that they’re incompatible. Microsoft promises that it will fix this issue, but for now consumers are left to their own devices to figure it out.

 

 

Also ... it comes with Windows Home..... for some reason. That's put me off it straight away.

Windows 10 Pro is installed on the Business Edition of the laptop.

 

www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/surface-laptop-3-for-business/93n7b0kdzncc?activetab=techspecs

[MartinT]

I've just started using my new Surface Pro 7 i7 16GB 256GB. This thing is a beast, never mind the spec comparisons that suggest a mild improvement. Compared with my previous Pro 5 i7 it seriously moves through work with lightning opening of apps. Used with my dock and 24" monitor at work it's a great workhorse. I have yet to see how battery life will pan out when I'm next at a seminar.

[Arthur]

Did they add the ability to emulate x64 code yet?

An x64 emulator looks like it will be added to Windows on ARM the year after next.

 

Microsoft is working to bring 64-bit Intel app emulation to Windows on ARM

 

Speaking with several sources, I can confirm that Microsoft is indeed working on bringing x64 app emulation to Windows on ARM. When that will happen is a bit more unclear, but it seems like it could be in Windows 10 21H1, which would mean that the general public will have access to it in the first half of 2021, and Windows Insiders will be able to test it out next year.