Vista: Is it here to stay?

[gshaw]

What with the rumours of Windows 7 being rushed forward what does this spell for the future of Vista - will it even get the chance to mature into a usable OS or be pulled for a new version before it even gets to SP2...

 

Your thoughts...

[Geoff]

I'm hoping it'll be like what happened when Windows ME was released (which was also terrible). Microsoft then went on to produce Windows 2000. Which was the best desktop OS they've ever produced IMHO.

[cookie_monster]

I wonder if MS will ditch a few Win7 features and rush the next version out with less changes just a load of fixes to make Win7 what Vista should of been. By then the UAC hammer should of forced enough third party software vendors to write their software properly instead of roaming all over the system like a 9x app. Same goes for the driver model, MS have made some big changes and it's taking time to adjust this is why they eventually punted Vista out the door or they could of waited for ever for things that are out of their control. This way third partys are forced into a new way of doing things whereas before they just kept punting out XP compatible content.

[sparkeh]

Personal opinion is that Vista will just turn out to be a stop gap until the next version that will include all the things that Vista was supposed to have but got cut.

 

Vista has done a spectacular job of failing to interest people and when you have a XP, which is actually fairly decent after 2 services packs and still does pretty much everything you want, why move to Vista?

[Gatt]

@Geoff.. I agree that 2000 was better than ME (ME seemed to be 98 with a few 2000 features thrown into it), but i woul dhave to say that XP (esp with SP2) has been the better OS...

 

Vista is a good OS for the HOME, but not really for businesses..

I think MS need to go back to the Home/Business split with 2 completely different OS's for each (like 9x and NT/2000 were.)

 

XP did work well as both a home user and a business client.. but Vista doesn't.. the new Look & Feel of Aero is really just a gimmick and will probably be disabled for most businesses, and why no support for XP themes?

 

No Vista belongs in the home. despite the "Business" and "Enterprise" editions, i dont think its really going to work in this environment..

[flyinghaggis]

Vista is a good OS for the HOME, but not really for businesses..

I think MS need to go back to the Home/Business split with 2 completely different OS's for each (like 9x and NT/2000 were.)

 

QFT!!

 

Definitely agree 100%. I think MS should really be looking at using the 'home' version of the OS as a testbed for new features that people would find useful but where if issues creep in it doesn't take down an entire business network! At the end of the day if a program crashes once a week on my home PC it's not the end of the world but that same crash once a week on 500 PC's at work would be completele and total disaster!

If anything it's logical that the 'business' client version of the Windows OS should be a step behind and less fully featured than the home version. The fact that most business/schools are quite happy to stay with XP just goes to prove that point.

There's also the problem that MS want to release a new version of windows every 2-3 years but this just isn't a realistic figure in a work environment due to the time taken (and cost) to test and update software (and potentially hardware) for a new OS.

I'd much prefer to see MS perhaps update the home version every 3 years and the 'business' version perhaps only every 5-6 years. Something like that sounds a lot more logical and realistic than what they're currently planning which is a new windows version every couple of years!

[sparkeh]

Not only does it not make sense for us to 'upgrade' (using the term lightly there) every 2-3 years, but they can't possibly (as demonstrated) release a stable and worthwhile version in this short time span.

[tmcd35]

Personal opinion, it'd never happen, but...

 

...M$ Should, dump the Windows Kernal and follow Apples lead. Take a Linux/BSD Kernel and pump some money into SAMBA and WINE for 'backward compatibility. Let's face it such solution would have about the same level of backward compatibility as Vista has now.

 

They could easily code up a XPesque GUI for X.

[Sirbendy]

...Let's face it such solution would have about the same level of backward compatibility as Vista has now. ...

 

 

http://www.jemjabella.co.uk/phpbb/images/smiles/rotfl.gif

 

I reckon Vista will be a "sweep under the carpet" job, like ME ended up.

[cookie_monster]

...M$ Should, dump the Windows Kernal

 

I can see the MS shareholders faces now when they say "we've decided to stop making money" :-)

[tmcd35]

I can see the MS shareholders faces now when they say "we've decided to stop making money" :-)

 

Did the Apple shareholders say "let's stop making money"? - no. There is a president set in using a FOSS kernel and then putting your closed source propriety code on top of that.

 

Nobody said the GUI had to be open source. And there are probably other area of the OS that M$ can call there own and still charge $$$ for.

 

I'm just saying that Windows can be greatly improved by starting again with a *nix foundation and SAMBA/WINE (with M$ input) for backwards compatibility.

[cookie_monster]

Don't get me wrong here i'm not supporting MS but that would cost them loads in the short term, much better they keep plugging away with a system that they CONTROL. MS do actually have a dept that look at FOSS solutions and i've no doubt they have plans involving that (if singularity doesn't pan out).

 

I don't think Linux will ever fit in with the likes of MS or Apple for that matter which is why they went for an alternative. I like Linux but i'm afraid that the community do as much harm as good they scare companies away.

 

Oh i'll also add Apple don't make money from their OS and certainly not back before they made the move to OSX.

Edited April 16, 2008 by cookie_monster

[CyberNerd]

Microsoft will be making Windows XP available for Eee-type laptops until at least 2010, in attempt to subdue the growing linux market. They plan on making a lower resources XP version too.

I don't think this spells the end for XP just yet;).

With Windows7 due 2009, before XP support stops - is good enough evidence for me that vista can be binned.

[torledo]

Microsoft will be making Windows XP available for Eee-type laptops until at least 2010, in attempt to subdue the growing linux market. They plan on making a lower resources XP version too.

I don't think this spells the end for XP just yet;).

With Windows7 due 2009, before XP support stops - is good enough evidence for me that vista can be binned.

 

While reports on vista take-up vary. i found this article on vista take up in large enteprises at the end of last year...

 

Windows Vista take-up crawls at snail's pace - Software - Breaking Business and Technology News at silicon.com

 

Interesting that the vista uprades were from those moving off windows 2000...i must say that does surprise me somewhat. Perhaps an upgrade to XP would have felt a bit like preserving the status quo

 

I think a LOT has changed since the end of last year, that figure of 25% moving this year is probably going to be less than half that i would imagine following the lukewarm response to SP1 but more importantly the anticipated 2009 release of Windows 7. I think there will be companies for whom Vista SP1 is the right fit at the right time, but 10% of enteprise users on Vista would be a 'success' after all the negativity.

 

I wonder if one of the reasons companies are rolling out vista is some of the deployment goodies in Vista Enterprise such as WinRE, for those planning complex large scale rollouts it could be the killer feature they're willing to buy into.

[Geoff]

Interesting that the vista uprades were from those moving off windows 2000...i must say that does surprise me somewhat. Perhaps an upgrade to XP would have felt a bit like preserving the status quo

 

I'd imagine it's because the W2k machines are the ones that have come up for replacement on the businesses 5 year replacement cycle. Assuming that they moved to XP after SP1 was released? They are just buying machines with Vista Business (I wonder how many machines got XP installed on them as soon as they hit the shop floor?).

[Quackers]

Even microsofts own Vista take up stats cannot be anywhere near what they say, evey Vista PC that comes in gets downgraded (or upgraded depending on how you look at things ) to Windows XP, so yes, a Vista licence sold, Vista in use, no.

[torledo]

Even microsofts own Vista take up stats cannot be anywhere near what they say, evey Vista PC that comes in gets downgraded (or upgraded depending on how you look at things ) to Windows XP, so yes, a Vista licence sold, Vista in use, no.

 

That's what i would have thought, and agree with geoff that if they haven't already done so they would downgrade to xp on newly purchased Vista machines.

 

But i think the silicon report is a bit vague on whether Vista has actually been deployed and in use at these companies. The companies have it seems been asked if they've moved to Vista which would suggest deployment rather than just purchasing of Vista licenses. Who knows ?, i think what's more important for us would be to know some facts and figures for here in the uk.....after all if potentially 1in10 or 1in20 companies to whom we apply for jobs in the future require Vista knwoeledge it would be important to know if we need to become Vista mgmt gurus even if we have no intention of deploying it on our own networks. Education and the public sector may be steering clear of Vista, but is the same true for everyone in the private sector ?

 

I'm hoping that figure is more like 1in50 or that its about as common in the enteprise as coldfusion so that i don't have to bother with it at all, and just stick to XP SP2 and SP3....

 

Cue irate coldfusion developers.

[tmcd35]

I'm hoping that figure is more like 1in50 or that its about as common in the enteprise as coldfusion so that i don't have to bother with it at all, and just stick to XP SP2 and SP3....

 

Cue irate coldfusion developers.

 

There's a good reason COBOL programmers earn an absolute fortune - it's not C++! Seriously the less popular an OS/Programming Language/Application is the more you can earn by speacilising if there is a small segment of industry that for what ever reason becomes reliant on it.

 

If 1in50 SME's deploy Vista then that's 1in50 SME's who will be wanting Techs with Vista knowledge and would be willing to pay more for them.

 

Me, I looking for a career with VMWare

[torledo]

There's a good reason COBOL programmers earn an absolute fortune - it's not C++! Seriously the less popular an OS/Programming Language/Application is the more you can earn by speacilising if there is a small segment of industry that for what ever reason becomes reliant on it.

 

If 1in50 SME's deploy Vista then that's 1in50 SME's who will be wanting Techs with Vista knowledge and would be willing to pay more for them.

 

Me, I looking for a career with VMWare

 

Yes, but cobol programmers aren't working on new projects, they're earning the buck maintaining old systems and old code. That's not necessarily a bad thing and we all know about the millions of lines of cobol code that needs to be maintained by a small army of middle aged cobol developers. There's a fair number of cobol programmers who've joined the 21st century and embraced java.

 

And find me a cobol developer in their teens, 20's or even early 30's ?

 

Unfortunately niche does't always command great money, novell sysadmins for instance. Same would apply for Vista admins.

 

I do agree VMware is a good choice, plenty of money to be earned in plannign and deploying ESX projects. Throw in some SAN knowledge and you've got a lucrative skills package.

[tmcd35]

Yes, but the point is if a 20 year old was smart s/he would learn some COBOL fastish and send a CV into a bank. I did COBOL during my B-TEC, surprisingly easy language to learn - I just find coding a complete bore.

[cookie_monster]

Interesting that the vista uprades were from those moving off windows 2000...i must say that does surprise me somewhat. Perhaps an upgrade to XP would have felt a bit like preserving the status quo

 

By the time licencing 6 came in XP was already available and Vista (Longhorn) was only a year away most enterprises and large companies decided to stick with the known and stable 2K and avoid (the then troublesome awkward new OS) XP and wait for the great Longhorn. Imagine their dissapointment with what arrived but it's too late as most of the 2K boxes need replacing but i imagine they'll be trying to hold on for Windows 7 for most upgrades which i suspect will be a good release. MS do have a habit of eventually coming good.

 

@ torledo :

novell sysadmins for instance

 

Unfortunatly netware is dead (RIP) so paying over the odds for support is dead money and you might as well upgrade, most cobal apps are viewed as an in house investment by companies (possibly over many years) and if it still meets it's purpose then they're making money by keeping that system servicable. COBOL has had it's day though and will be wound up eventually.

Edited April 17, 2008 by cookie_monster

[Sirbendy]

I'm holding on for Windows 7, personally. Vista is OK for light stuff, but I still don't trust it, at all. XP is still my choice.

[Dos_Box]

As regards to the next version of Windows I would suggest that many of us here, and in industry would be more prepared to adopt that rather than Vista due to the fact most of use would have Server 2008 installed and configured correctly by this time. Dumping a network OS without the back end to control it and expecting corporates to adopt it was dammed stupid of Microsoft IMHO.

[tmcd35]

Well in my current environment I'm looking at holding out with Win2k3/XP for as long as possible. I'm sure Win2008 will be installed here eventually, possibly after I'm gone. I can't see Vista being installed anytime soon, if at all. Windows 7 is likely to be the next desktop change, although personally if I'm still here I'd be looking at Linux alternatives - if at all possible.

 

Personally, at home, I'm a devout mac fanboy. At the moment Win XP does all I need, Vista is a no way never and by the time Windows 7 comes around I be doing everything exclusively on the mac/ps3. Weather or not I use Windows 7 depends on the work environment I'm in at the time.

[Gatt]

Anyone seen Windows 7 yet, cant find any beta's of it