Which version of Windows 10?

[DrCheese]

This is my issue. I can't be doing this every 9 months - I don't have the time.

 

Yes - Are the features/improvements you get from the standard channel really worth it? Photo viewer is 1 registry key to restore in the LTSB & the bit about calc being missing makes no sense as we have calc.exe on our installs (I didn't add it in, it's just there)

 

Much rather just manually roll out the next LTSB build every two years, it doesn't take long to wiz round and reimage our machines (600+ A week at most) & I'm not forced to do it on MS's schedule, rather when we get time (As the last LTSB is still supported)

[FN-GM]

Yes - Are the features/improvements you get from the standard channel really worth it? Photo viewer is 1 registry key to restore in the LTSB & the bit about calc being missing makes no sense as we have calc.exe on our installs (I didn't add it in, it's just there)

 

Much rather just manually roll out the next LTSB build every two years, it doesn't take long to wiz round and reimage our machines (600+ A week at most) & I'm not forced to do it on MS's schedule, rather when we get time (As the last LTSB is still supported)

 

Couldn't agree more. This is the main reason we use LTSB. We have a few thousand machines so LTSB is the best way to control and manage the updates.

[Michael]

Couldn't agree more. This is the main reason we use LTSB. We have a few thousand machines so LTSB is the best way to control and manage the updates.

 

Exact same reasons for us too.

[Steve21]

I don't understand any of the above few saying you get more control with it. Unless you're talking not doing any upgrades for over 2 years you have the same options to delay in Edu as you did before in win7 etc

 

(18 months per version default + 6 months extended on Edu/Ent versions)

 

If you're not doing upgrades for 2 years+ it seems you're going to be losing so many new features in the first place.

 

Steve

[JRowley]

Windows 10 Education 1703 moving to 1803 shortly mainly for files on demand.

[DrCheese]

I don't understand any of the above few saying you get more control with it. Unless you're talking not doing any upgrades for over 2 years you have the same options to delay in Edu as you did before in win7 etc

 

(18 months per version default + 6 months extended on Edu/Ent versions)

 

If you're not doing upgrades for 2 years+ it seems you're going to be losing so many new features in the first place.

 

Steve

 

Yes, but the difference being is that those computers might not benefit from, or need the new features. I can upgrade machines that I want, when I want. i.e If the Finance managers computer doesn't benefit from them, then I can leave them alone for 3/4 years & still have plenty of time to upgrade it. I don't need to worry about it dropping out of support within 2 years.

 

I am very much "Bleeding edge" when I can be (We moved to both 7 & 10 within a year of release), but in certain cases I just want things to tick over, so I can focus on other things.

[sparkeh]

Ok just wondering. If you are using LTSC and you buy a new machine and the silicon isn't supported by LTSC... what do you do?

[Steve21]

I can upgrade machines that I want, when I want

 

But you can't (in a way). Take files on demand now, how can you use it? You "have" to wait for a new LTSB/C and then reinstall all of your machines to use it anyway, removing the benefit of controlling updates.

 

In the same way if you really wanted finance manager to stay on an older version you could install that one machine to an older LTSB/C version in 2 years, and still keep everyone on a newer version. You don't need to limit everyone for that one user etc (ok an example but you know what I mean)

 

Lets say tomorrow MS release a shiny new "here's a free replacement for Adobe softare" example, would you really ignore it for years just to wait for a new LTSB/C?

 

Steve

[Michael]

LTSB16 is valid for 10 years, with just security updates. Hardware post 2019 would of course be installed with the later LTSC19, but I don't consider this a problem. It's perfectly OK to manage two different versions of Windows in a domain. A lot of you are probably managing many versions of Windows in a domain (depending on how its managed).

 

Of all the Apps in the Education version, how many are actually used? You'll find in practice it'll be school specific cloud services/subscriptions or legacy applications rather than Apps.

 

Files on Demand won't be how things work long term (in my professional opinion). Take a look at Azure File Sync. Definitely an Enterprise/Education service and will work on any domain connected flavour of Windows 10; appearing as a mapped drive, just like any other.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Michael

[Steve21]

It's not about the Edu Apps I mean I'd have gone for Ent if there wasn't a specific Edu version, but still wouldn't pick LongTerm ones when there's no benefit really.

 

But it's the ability to be able to add features and software when we want without being locked down to a fixed old version.

 

I feel this pic from Gartner last year sums up it (Based on the assumptions that are being said here, vs reality with new hardware/security features etc)

 

 

Steve

[DrCheese]

Ok just wondering. If you are using LTSC and you buy a new machine and the silicon isn't supported by LTSC... what do you do?

 

Last LTSB works fine on Coffee lake, despite being "unsupported" - Microsoft don't put any blocks on it, just as they don't stop you installing Windows XP/Vista/7/8. I don't see this as an issue.

 

But you can't (in a way). Take files on demand now, how can you use it? You "have" to wait for a new LTSB/C and then reinstall all of your machines to use it anyway, removing the benefit of controlling updates.

No, but I can wait. I'm not desperate to use a feature. Yes I'd have to reinstall my machines but that's on my terms, not Microsoft's.

 

In the same way if you really wanted finance manager to stay on an older version you could install that one machine to an older LTSB/C version in 2 years, and still keep everyone on a newer version. You don't need to limit everyone for that one user etc (ok an example but you know what I mean)

 

I could, but why? I'm not limiting anyone at all. If I had kept up with the latest Windows 10 Updates my users wouldn't have noticed a thing, at least not one that makes their lives easier/jobs better. The inconvenience of being force upgraded, along with any/all issues caused by this (i.e bugs) would have caused more headaches. "Sorry we caused x/y/z but we really needed *insert useless feature here*"

 

Lets say tomorrow MS release a shiny new "here's a free replacement for Adobe softare" example, would you really ignore it for years just to wait for a new LTSB/C?

That would be extremely unlikely. If they did, then yes I may look at rolling it out to certain areas that needed it sooner than the next LTSB, but I would leave the majority of machines alone to get teachers & support staff get on with their jobs. I would then phase those machines back into the LTSB when the next one comes out.

[sparkeh]

Hardware post 2019 would of course be installed with the later LTSC19, but I don't consider this a problem.

But then you can't buy new (officially supported) hardware until the next LTSC is released right? Not being awkward, genuinely interested in this, but that would seem like a problem to me.

Last LTSB works fine on Coffee lake, despite being "unsupported" - Microsoft don't put any blocks on it, just as they don't stop you installing Windows XP/Vista/7/8. I don't see this as an issue.

Again not being awkward but that's great as long as it does work. I am still wondering what happens if you buy new hardware and LTSC won't work on it? Will you then revert to Edu/Ent/Pro or something?

[gshaw]

Education 1709 - done all our testing on it so seems risky to jump onto 1803 just before we start deploying. Again Files on Demand is the big driver.

[free780]

I'd leave 1803 for a while. The autumn update usually has the new features.

[Geoff]

Ok just wondering. If you are using LTSC and you buy a new machine and the silicon isn't supported by LTSC... what do you do?

 

Firstly consult the holy words of MS and not buy shiny new things until you are sure the processor is supported by LTSC 2016.

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements.

 

Otherwise I just put Win 10 Enterprise v1709 on. It's not really a hardship to support multiple Win10 versions as I have SCCM. I mean, I have Surface devices so I can't even put LTSC on those. We only really went down the LTSC route because of the driver issues with the ancient Optiplex 760's we're using.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Geoff

[Michael]

But then you can't buy new (officially supported) hardware until the next LTSC is released right? Not being awkward, genuinely interested in this, but that would seem like a problem to me.

 

I don't follow - the probability is hardware post 2019 will work absolutely fine on LTSB16 anyway, but if it doesn't then we can always install LTSC19. Not supported and won't work are two different considerations. I'm speculating Microsoft will probably backtrack (they normally do), given they want to continue to drive Windows 10.

 

If you think about it in real terms, other than Files on Demand there isn't really anything revolutionary that's applicable to Education that you can't either buy or download a third party alternative. Even then Files on Demand solves some problems, but not others, which is why Azure File Sync makes more Enterprise sense.

 

Upgrading twice a year in any large Enterprise or Education establishment is completely unrealistic. The LTSB/LTSC model offers 10 years worth of support (security updates), which is perfect and allows me to concentrate and focus on other projects/requirements. Microsoft don't seem to accept that the Windows 7 model (still used by some) works, as it's the same core OS, with only security updates and little enhancements. For years we've been downloading/installing third party applications to fulfil these requirements.

[Geoff]

If you have a requirement to use Store apps or you want to use Office 365 Click to run after 2020 you will have to come off LTSC. As an O365 shop that is an issue we have to handle, but it's a manageable situation for us, as we just need to bin the Optiplex's we have and we're sorted (~350 workstations).

 

I have found newer inplace upgrades a lot less painful. 1709 to 1804 was about an hour in the background then a 20 minute reboot. That's on one of our steam driven Optiplex's (granted with an SSD and a memory upgrade) too.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Geoff

[Michael]

Office 365 ProPlus won't be possible on LTSC19, but Office 2019 will be.

 

I can understand Microsoft's decision on this, keeping OS and ProPlus in sync, whereas Office 2019 will have a much longer support cycle.

[sparkeh]

I don't follow - the probability is hardware post 2019 will work absolutely fine on LTSB16 anyway, but if it doesn't then we can always install LTSC19. Not supported and won't work are two different considerations. I'm speculating Microsoft will probably backtrack (they normally do), given they want to continue to drive Windows 10.

 

If you think about it in real terms, other than Files on Demand there isn't really anything revolutionary that's applicable to Education that you can't either buy or download a third party alternative. Even then Files on Demand solves some problems, but not others, which is why Azure File Sync makes more Enterprise sense.

 

Upgrading twice a year in any large Enterprise or Education establishment is completely unrealistic. The LTSB/LTSC model offers 10 years worth of support (security updates), which is perfect and allows me to concentrate and focus on other projects/requirements. Microsoft don't seem to accept that the Windows 7 model (still used by some) works, as it's the same core OS, with only security updates and little enhancements. For years we've been downloading/installing third party applications to fulfil these requirements.

I do understand what you are saying, however, aren't you going to end up in a position of either having multiple versions of LTSC deployed across your site or being forced to upgrade every few years anyway but in an unplanned way (ie when you find that new hardware isn't working on your current version).

[DrCheese]

ya but it'd only be on those machines that required it & you'd be aware of this before purchasing. Server builds are also based on the last LTSB so it would be extremely unlikely that Microsoft would not support the latest silicon on the current released LTSB version. As for maybe having multiple versions across site that's not really any different than the current branch issue, but with knowledge that those machines you haven't reached yet are still getting security updates.

 

I do think you're overstating the risks of new hardware personally.

[sparkeh]

I do think you're overstating the risks of new hardware personally.

Quite possibly yes

[Asgard]

1709 Enterprise x64.

 

This was from our original 1511 build which we in-place upgraded via WSUS (and a post oobe powershell to remove the new junk) works great on our desktop PCs, about 1300 of them.

 

Our issue, probably like most people... laptops (about 300 of them dotted in trolleys around the campus) so we deploy Office and Cumulative oS updates via WSuS and then when an OS upgrade comes out we manually set the laptops off (gives us a good chance to nose at the condition/asset check etc) over a half term.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Asgard

[free780]

Laptops are a pain. From.the MS perspective the user should initiate the upgrade. However most laptops are shared. The only way I can think of doing it is to make them go into standby and wake at night to upgrade.

[FN-GM]

Laptops are a pain. From.the MS perspective the user should initiate the upgrade. However most laptops are shared. The only way I can think of doing it is to make them go into standby and wake at night to upgrade.

 

Couldn't agree more. It was the driving factor for us to switch to Chromebooks instead.

[free780]

Well.im deep into Office 365/AzureAD now. Probably go for co-management. Still need a maintenance window somehow.