[isams] Understanding UK Terminology & Schedule Uploading

[BFish]

Hi all,

 

This is a very generic question but one I have not been able to get answered. I am in a slow process of building an IMS system from basically scratch as all my school has is ManageBac/OpenApply. I am American and I know ISAMS was built for the UK educational system so their terminology is different. I am in the process of uploading my schedule from ASC time tables and am trying to make sense of the following:

 

What is the difference between class forms and class sets? I have seen it mentioned often throughout ISAMS and in my teaching manager module it is asking for both.

 

Second question and this is a bit more specific. If you upload your time table to ISAMS and get a 500 server error is this because there is a mistake with your ASC time tables where some set of data issue is not matching your ISAMS variables OR is it a much bigger issue with ISAMS where I need to get tech support?

 

I'm trying to avoid going to tech support. Had a rough first few weeks with them and programming errors throughout the portal. Their response is usually ... "Buy our training program"

[Rob_D]

Disclaimer, I don't know ISAMS specifically, so this is just about the nomenclature. Hopefully this is helpful for you.

 

Forms are the (generally) mixed ability groups students are registered in.

Sets are (generally) ability streamed groups students are taught in for each subject.

[elsiegee40]

@vikpaw have you got iSams experience?

[vikpaw]

@vikpaw have you got iSams experience?

Unfortunately not, though going to tech support in this instance is probably the best idea.

 

Forms are the (generally) mixed ability groups students are registered in.

Sets are (generally) ability streamed groups students are taught in for each subject.

 

^^ Agree this is the usual meaning. It could be more general to say form Group is like a Home room, or pastoral grouping. The set is a teaching group, possibly just based on subject choices and availability regardless of ability. Both could have members from multiple year groups if you’re designing something American style and this would need careful thought if using a UK system to store it, or even within ASC. Although both can normally handle international settings.

 

Hi all,

 

This is a very generic question but one I have not been able to get answered. I am in a slow process of building an IMS system from basically scratch as all my school has is ManageBac/OpenApply. I am American and I know ISAMS was built for the UK educational system so their terminology is different.

 

I'm trying to avoid going to tech support. Had a rough first few weeks with them and programming errors throughout the portal. Their response is usually ... "Buy our training program"

 

@BFish I’m a little confused about your situation can you give us more specifics?

Are you building your own system / a new system or do you mean you are implementing iSAMS as a new install?

If you have just bought in to them you should take the training program, even if it’s been in place a while and is just new to you. You can’t beat some core training to get to grips with a new MIS.

 

A 500 error is most likely something unhandled on their server side, this could be due to malformed data being presented but it should have error checking to manage that, so something is going awry and they need to take a look and support you. I’m assuming it has worked before or that you can recreate this on different machines / browsers. It’s worth trying with Internet Explorer because long ago, it was the only browser they supported so there could be some legacy component they rely upon.

 

Avoiding tech support is only going to cause you more problems in the long run. You should have a contract for this and if they are not being helpful, there are avenues to pursue this. However, it’s not uncommon for a vendor to expect you (the school) to have been trained in a module before they will support it. Certainly if the issues are not bugs but user understanding.

[vikpaw]

This mentions an IE setting so it’s possibly still something to be aware of and also there’s possibly other help available there.

 

https://documentation.isams.com/display/TM/Importing+your+School+Timetable+into+iSAMS

[BFish]

Unfortunately not, though going to tech support in this instance is probably the best idea.

 

^^ Agree this is the usual meaning. It could be more general to say form Group is like a Home room, or pastoral grouping. The set is a teaching group, possibly just based on subject choices and availability regardless of ability. Both could have members from multiple year groups if you’re designing something American style and this would need careful thought if using a UK system to store it, or even within ASC. Although both can normally handle international settings.

@BFish I’m a little confused about your situation can you give us more specifics?

Are you building your own system / a new system or do you mean you are implementing iSAMS as a new install?

If you have just bought in to them you should take the training program, even if it’s been in place a while and is just new to you. You can’t beat some core training to get to grips with a new MIS.

 

A 500 error is most likely something unhandled on their server side, this could be due to malformed data being presented but it should have error checking to manage that, so something is going awry and they need to take a look and support you. I’m assuming it has worked before or that you can recreate this on different machines / browsers. It’s worth trying with Internet Explorer because long ago, it was the only browser they supported so there could be some legacy component they rely upon.

 

Avoiding tech support is only going to cause you more problems in the long run. You should have a contract for this and if they are not being helpful, there are avenues to pursue this. However, it’s not uncommon for a vendor to expect you (the school) to have been trained in a module before they will support it. Certainly if the issues are not bugs but user understanding.

 

It's a school that currently does not have a formal MIS system. There's positives and negatives to such a situation and starting on a new platform. Essentially, we can make it the way we want and use as many or as few of the features as we need to for an initial rollout because any system is an upgrade over no system.

In terms of support yes they have. However, if you ask a common simple question such as the one posted here and they see your still on the install phase they are a bit aggressively pushy about getting training (Can add up to 6K USD+). That's all fine but our sales guy stated it was optional and schools have easily done it without it so when we made the option obviously we budgeted for the cheaper option with a slight bit of fluff. Since I know this is a forum full of UK schools asking a European translation question makes more sense to come to here, plus way-way faster results.

 

Thanks to all that replied. It was FORMS that I wanted, which in my school we call class sections which is based off of HR.

Edited April 5, 2018 by BFish

[vikpaw]

That’s a poor sales tactic. Shame.

 

Well, we do have a number of iSAMS users here so stick around and hopefully we’ll be able to continue the support.

 

I hear they have a tight integration with ManageBac / Faria so that should work in your favour.

[TechMonkey]

That’s a poor sales tactic. Shame.

 

Well, we do have a number of iSAMS users here so stick around and hopefully we’ll be able to continue the support.

 

I hear they have a tight integration with ManageBac / Faria so that should work in your favour.

 

It's a fine line between sales tactic and the necessity to not need hand holding, and taking up support resources, for very basic things.

 

But to the OP we migrated to iSAMS last August so do yell if you want to ask any questions. I did find that a lot of questions were unanswered by the install team as they had nothing to do with the front end system so expected you to ask the trainer. This then turned into a chicken and egg situation where the installer was asking you a question for setup but you didn't know the answer as it depended on how the system worked and they couldn't answer as they didn't know the system so just wanted the data and for you to ask the trainer but you couldn't progress to training until he system was setup!

[vikpaw]

I totally get the point when untrained users are taking up support resource. The issue is when the sales guy states the training is optional and this affects system uptake and usage. If that is happening, the docs should be good enough and help in understanding them should be given.

 

That chicken and egg scenario is interesting. With Engage, the implementation training is done with or without data and effectively shows you how to do the setup. This puts a lot of onus on the school to do a load of work post training, but it can work well.

[djmiles73]

I found this thread looking for an easier import setup from ascTimetables to ManageBac - currently about to work my way through the ~500+ individual lessons I'm going to have to enter manually into Excel in order to import into MB. Wondering if anyone has come up with a solution?

 

Also, interested in networking, as it looks like some of us are working with similar software combinations.

[moik]

Hi there,

 

In iSAMS, a Form can be thought of as a subset of Year Group. For example, imagine there are 100 students in Year Group 4- they would be divided into 4 Forms of 25 students each: 4a, 4b, 4c, 4d.

 

Additionally, some students (generally Primary) are timetabled Form-based teaching. This means that the kids in 4a will go through all the classes in their day with the same kids. English, Math, Science... all with the same 4a kids.

 

Set-based teaching is when (generally Secondary) kids have a homeroom, i.e. 10a, but thereafter will go to Set '10 Bio AP', in which they might be mixed with any number of other kids from 10a, 10b, 10c, 10d.

Then they move on to Set '10 Music' which may have an entirely different mix of Year 10 kids, etc...

 

***

 

As to the 500 error, omg yes. If there is so much as a typo in your import file that doesn't match with what's in iSAMS it just explodes rather than telling you that there is a data mismatch. It was a massive headache for me to figure that out.

 

***

 

Check out the iSAMS Discussion forum for help. It's not very active but it's something:

 

https://discussion.isams.com/

 

There are also some helpful webinars. You might refer to the rollover specific ones here:

 

https://icommunity.isams.com/media_center/folders/4313b21c-cbb1-44f4-980d-45c1f3d31419

 

 

 

Good luck!

[moik]

I hear they have a tight integration with ManageBac / Faria so that should work in your favour.

 

I wouldn't call it *tight*. At the moment they only import profile data for students, teachers, parents- and it's unidirectional.

[mavhc]

A 500 error means their software is broken, if it can't handle anything you send it without crashing that's their fault. Also anyone that mentions IE being needed for their product in 2019 shouldn't just not be given money, they should be fined.

[BFish]

Hi all,

 

I am close to finishing my first year with iSAMS and will try to post a review at some point. I have figured out most of my UK edu terminology by this point and surprisingly have signed a contract next year as the head of IT at a really prestigious British school within Asia. I am sure there will be some phrases though that will stump me though.

 

In terms of the internal server errors I do want to give other prospective buyers or people who use ASC Time Tables some additional information as it may be beneficial for them to hear from a buyer's reflection almost a year after the initial install. The company advertises several time tables that they support; however, in terms of ASC time tables the comparability is limited to basic features within ASC Time Tables. The install technician I was assigned to informed me that very few of the clients he had worked with use ASC time tables, which may explain why compatibility was not fully developed. ASC Time Tables has a division feature which did not work at all within iSAMS and essentially made using it as a software completely useless. In addition, the way the time table was exported even if all data matched it would cause an error. Ultimately, I went line by line through the export found one single line of code within the export from ASC that I had to manually change everytime I did an export to get it to work.

 

The error checking and reporting information on the structure of the time table on where the error occurred that would constantly cause a server error was definitely a disappointment as a customer. Strangely, they have a really great import module for their after school activities that does give you detailed errors when something is incorrect so there seems to be some inconsistencies on their import functionality error reports for tech admins.

 

I recommend if you are planning to use iSAMS in the future to select a different time tabling software from ASC Time Tables, which is probably used more frequently and therefore better developed on supporting all of the features of the time tabling software within iSAMS. Keith Johnson Time Table would be a good example.

 

Ultimately with how iSAMS handles schedules I ended up having to make an excel document with 8,000 rows to manually create a schedule for our secondary program since iSAMS does not natively support schools who use a numbered rotating day schedule (Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 4, Day 5, Day 6, Day 7, & then repeat). iSAMS also does not natively support multiple schedules so for schools who run more than 1 schedule a day for their school divisions. In my school's example our primary years run a 7 period, M-F schedule where as our secondary run a 4 period 7 day rotation schedule. The tech staff can manually merge the two separate schedules so there is a solution at least but it's an insane amount of manual work.

 

The good news is iSAMS does have supporting multiple schedules for one school on their road map for the current year so hopefully by next academic year they will have some of the issues I addressed above fixed.