BLUESKY:So, if you were setting up your school from scratch, what MIS would you buy?

[DODICT]

I'd definitely be looking at a MIS that focused on ensuring you can get your information out, and I'd also avoid ones that look like they were designed in the 80's in the USSR !! Bromcom or ISAMS for me - easy access and sensible interface coupled with varying level of reporting access to suit different needs. And they listen to customers and respond to demand to inform development.

 

I think I'll be making this call anyway soon as their is savings to be had by adopting cloud systems so what is holding people back from making a change ? Surprised people are sighting finance as a barrier to switching as I'd suggest if money is the only concern the market leader wouldn't be top of anyone's list.

Edited February 8, 2018 by DODICT

[TechMonkey]

We looked at iSAMS but the deal breaker for our exam team was that you couldn't seat internal exams? Is that still an issue?

 

We don't use Exam modules but I seem to remember some discussion about the Internal not being as fleshed out as the External, so it could still be a problem.

[altecsole]

Not sure, it has an Internal Exam manager but we do not use it. Did it have that module when you last looked?

Yes, I'm pretty sure it had the module. Thanks.

[RootsSchImp]

I'd definitely be looking at a MIS that focused on ensuring you can get your information out, and I'd also avoid ones that look like they were designed in the 80's in the USSR !! Bromcom or ISAMS for me - easy access and sensible interface coupled with varying level of reporting access to suit different needs. And they listen to customers and respond to demand to inform development.

 

I think I'll be making this call anyway soon as their is savings to be had by adopting cloud systems so what is holding people back from making a change ? Surprised people are sighting finance as a barrier to switching as I'd suggest if money is the only concern the market leader wouldn't be top of anyone's list.

 

I think ppl assume switching MIS will be much harder than it is when they've only ever dealt with Capita. It's a reverse-genius marketing strategy where your product is so terrible it stops people from buying a different one.

[mavhc]

The cost of switching is very high, data, training, risk, linked applications

[RootsSchImp]

The cost of switching is very high, data, training, risk, linked applications

 

I don't think so. If you switch to a good provider they sort out the data transfer for you and if you switch to a good product you don't have to train your teachers beyond a short presentation, just your support staff. Plus if your using SIMS you can probably find an MIS that does the things you're buying third party apps to do.

 

Sure there's risk and you need to plan the move carefully - it'll take you months not weeks from end to end, but it's not the huge deal people think it is.

[mavhc]

Data never transfers completely, all your templates need altering for the new system, all those custom fields you added, all the attainment tracking you spent a year setting up, the links to a finance system, new timetables, links to AD/Office365/Google. All the things the new one doesn't do yet that you want, historical data, new passwords, logons, training training training, training yourself.

 

So probably a person year's work at least, £20k. Then after a year you're saving £x for costs, and £y because it's better.

 

That's ignoring MATS and Trusts etc, wanting to standardise on a system, you might have to switch twice.

[Datamouse]

From a Local Authority's point of view, I'd consider how data is transferred to your LA, too. SIMS has the benefit of B2B: Student which means data files can be sent as scheduled tasks to the LA automatically, therefore no manual intervention required and so saving on Admin costs. Other MIS can produce files that the LA can import but I've not heard as yet of an example where this process can be completely automated as B2B: Student can.

[djrscally]

From a Local Authority's point of view, I'd consider how data is transferred to your LA, too. SIMS has the benefit of B2B: Student which means data files can be sent as scheduled tasks to the LA automatically, therefore no manual intervention required and so saving on Admin costs. Other MIS can produce files that the LA can import but I've not heard as yet of an example where this process can be completely automated as B2B: Student can.

Groupcall Xporter handles this ably for everyone non-SIMs.

[Datamouse]

I've heard about Groupcall Xporter but not looked in to it too far as yet. We're pretty new to B2B: Student and have only got our SIMS schools on board with it in the last 2 years so will soon be looking at how to transfer data with our non SIMS schools. Is Groupcall fully scheduled/automated as B2B is? I.e. no need for say a school to manually export a file and put it in a drive where it can be 'collected'? Edited February 9, 2018 by Datamouse

[djrscally]

I've heard about Groupcall Xporter but not looked in to it too far as yet. We're pretty new to B2B: Student and have only got our SIMS schools on board with it in the last 2 years so will soon be looking at how to transfer data with our non SIMS schools. Is Groupcall fully scheduled/automated as B2B is? I.e. no need for say a school to manually export a file and put it in a drive where it can be 'collected'?

 

Nope; it's automatic. Past the initial setup and the occasional blip there's no staff input from the school required.

[matt40k]

Groupcall is full automated. You can use AnyComms if you want to.

 

Look up B2B open. It's B2B but it's designed for non-SIMS schools.

[Datamouse]

Thanks. I've heard of B2B Open too but again not had the opportunity to fully investigate as yet. I thought however, that B2B Open was one where the file had to be run by the school and placed in a particular drive for collection but I could be wrong.

[matt40k]

Sounds like AVCO AnyComms. It can help automated some of the pain. B2B is just a webservice at the end of the day, admittedly it has elements of vendor lock-in, but these aren't things that should limit schools choices of MIS systems. After all the LA job is to serve schools, not the other way around.

[mavhc]

B2B:Open so open there's basically nothing on google about it, yay

[matt40k]

Sorry, have you not meet Capita?

[DODICT]

The cost of switching is very high, data, training, risk, linked applications

 

I believe this as capita tells me so

 

I believe this as capita tells me so

 

I believe this . . .

[mavhc]

I believe this because I'm migrated things before

[CloudGeek]

I believe this as capita tells me so

 

I believe this as capita tells me so

 

I believe this . . .

 

Yes, it feels like defying the gravity and of course in full denial the age of Cloud.

 

One of recent post that it spells out what it means switching to Cloud is a post below (copied from elsewhere) - it sums it up so nicely. I couldn’t resist sharing it here:

 

Having been in education about 2 years and coming from a corporate background, the Capita Gravy train has been holding digital progress in the sector and sucking money that could be used in preparing children for future life. We must understand the primary reason for education is for the sake of learners not some massive corporate with greedy shareholders. Check out this technical white paper https://www.vanessapittard.co.uk/blog

[matt40k]

Yes, it feels like defying the gravity and of course in full denial the age of Cloud.

 

One of recent post that it spells out what it means switching to Cloud is a post below (copied from elsewhere) - it sums it up so nicely. I couldn’t resist sharing it here:

 

I agree moving to the cloud is a good idea for primary schools as it cuts costs (among other things), but a £11k in savings per school per year? I'm not sure I know many schools who spend more than £5k a year on SIMS and all the expensive bolt-ons in total, so how do they get £11k in savings?

[mavhc]

Unfree your data by sending it into the cloud, where you can't access the raw database any more, and are relying on a company to keep their servers running. No longer can you write custom applications to read the database.

 

TIL the only thing more annoying than a 2 column pdf is a 3 column pdf.

[CloudGeek]

I agree moving to the cloud is a good idea for primary schools as it cuts costs (among other things), but a £11k in savings per school per year? I'm not sure I know many schools who spend more than £5k a year on SIMS and all the expensive bolt-ons in total, so how do they get £11k in savings?

 

This is classical oversight that happens.

 

Saving in software licences is just the start. The real saving is going serverless in school and everything around it!

 

There are many factual case studies on this besides NPW.

 

“Cloud first” has been the government’s mandate for the central government departments for sometime and undoubtedly will be for schools soon too!

Edited February 10, 2018 by CloudGeek

[mavhc]

Why is going serverless a saving? You're just paying for someone else's server

[CloudGeek]

Why is going serverless a saving? You're just paying for someone else's server

 

Exactly, you are if you stick with legacy Windows thick client software. This is called re-location of Same old Software as a Service - SoSaaS. Eg Capita SIMS7.

 

However in true cloud, to rip off all the benefits of resource sharing, MIS has to be written in web application with multi-tenancy and resource sharing in mind. Hence the same server that can barely run one school MIS will run 10s of schools. And of course no IT resources are needed for its maintenance. Hence why Capita has now started developing SIMS8 as a web application.

 

One of the most recent and relevant write up is: https://www.vanessapittard.co.uk/blog

[AlanD]

We like Schoolbase. (You probably never heard of it). Its pretty comprehensive - and includes things like "librarian" and "music instrumental rotas". If I had a niggle it would be that the user interface has always seemed to be afterthought....but the functionality is always spot on. And like All MIS systems....it does seem to cost quite a bit..