New building wifi

[IrritableTech]

That’s the point though, isn’t it? What more do I need? Will these APs be adequate? Do they have good support? Can I pick up the phone and shout at someone when they go wrong? Can I get them easily replaced if and when they die?

There has to be a reason as to why they’re so much cheaper and I want to know what it is.

 

What more do I need? Probably nothing, but only you can say. Compare the features list.

Will these APs be adequate? Spec the right AP and the answer is probably yes - test one, they're cheap.

Do they have good support? No. Primarily it's community support, but you have come here so I'm guessing you are used to that. I bet you do this with Microsoft support as well - and you pay them lots of money every year most likely.

Can I pick up the phone and shout at someone when they go wrong? The short answer is no.

Can I get them easily replaced if and when they die? Yeah, new units are being developed lots - that is the whole point of the business model, sell cheap hardware and develop it regularly then people keep buying kit. It's much the same as the mobile phone market.

 

We recently ripped out an aging Ruckus system and replaced with Unifi which cost us a fraction of the price (and we've expanded at the same time). We've had to rethink the way we've implemented wifi to our users a little bit, but actually the rethink has ended up being a much better solution.

[AlanD]

As good as the Unifi stuff looks, I have to ask why are they so cheap? What aren't you getting? Is it something in the hardware? Some software features? Support? Warranty? Something else?

 

Why is it that some people think that if you pay less - you must get less....

 

Basically wireless access points have exactly the same chip sets as a laptop wireless card....and they all have the same microcode/firmware that does all the hard work - otherwise they wouldn't get the 803.22 accreditation. Yes - it may have antenna structures (usually on the circuit board...and yes there will be management software to do authentication and the like. And yes - some (like Meraki) do layer 7 stuff really well...but you probably have that visibility at your web filter/firewall so there is not much point in duplicating it - and probably better to keep it all in one place. Yes - if you buy a rolls Royce solution you get your hands held nicely to get it all installed - rather than it all turning up in a large brown box. And yes - often the subscription cloud based services lock you into hardware replacement guarantees - which effectively lock you into that supplier. But as far as end users of devices are concerned - they neither know nor care - and would be unable to detect any small differences (and there are only small differences) in performance. In fact - its often the more expensive "clever" stuff that ends up causing more problems...

[Norphy]

Thanks for the responses. I want to make clear that I’m not anti-Unifi by any stretch of the imagination. Like I say, I just want to know why it costs less.

 

 

I bet you do this with Microsoft support as well - and you pay them lots of money every year most likely.

Can I pick up the phone and shout at someone when they go wrong? The short answer is no.

Can I get them easily replaced if and when they die? Yeah, new units are being developed lots - that is the whole point of the business model, sell cheap hardware and develop it regularly then people keep buying kit. It's much the same as the mobile phone market.

 

 

The difference with Microsoft is:

 

1) I have more than 15 years of experience of managing MS solutions

2) I have gone on a lot of MS training courses

3) MS servers are my specialty and something which I’m confident at supporting and managing

4) If the excrement does hit the midden and I come across an issue I can’t resolve, I can go to an MS partner or to MS themselves and get support. I would have to pay for it but I can do it.

 

Networking is an area where I’m not so experienced; I know mostly enough but need help from time to time. Wireless, I’m much less confident. If I get a solution I want support, either from the manufacturer or from a qualified vendor. I have three academies to look after, three IT teams, eight schools in nine campuses spread across 15 miles. I can’t be getting in a solution then rely on community support if something goes wrong.

[Norphy]

Why is it that some people think that if you pay less - you must get less....

 

 

Because generally speaking, you do. Maybe the hardware is basically the same as everyone else’s but from other posts in this thread, it sounds like support is basic. I already have a poorly supported wireless system, I don’t want to swap it for another.

[ITGuyWestMidlands]

Thanks for the responses. I want to make clear that I’m not anti-Unifi by any stretch of the imagination. Like I say, I just want to know why it costs less.

 

 

 

 

 

The difference with Microsoft is:

 

1) I have more than 15 years of experience of managing MS solutions

2) I have gone on a lot of MS training courses

3) MS servers are my specialty and something which I’m confident at supporting and managing

4) If the excrement does hit the midden and I come across an issue I can’t resolve, I can go to an MS partner or to MS themselves and get support. I would have to pay for it but I can do it.

 

Networking is an area where I’m not so experienced; I know mostly enough but need help from time to time. Wireless, I’m much less confident. If I get a solution I want support, either from the manufacturer or from a qualified vendor. I have three academies to look after, three IT teams, eight schools in nine campuses spread across 15 miles. I can’t be getting in a solution then rely on community support if something goes wrong.

You can buy into their elite subscription for support. It's still quite cheap.

[IrritableTech]

The difference with Microsoft is:

 

1) I have more than 15 years of experience of managing MS solutions

2) I have gone on a lot of MS training courses

3) MS servers are my specialty and something which I’m confident at supporting and managing

4) If the excrement does hit the midden and I come across an issue I can’t resolve, I can go to an MS partner or to MS themselves and get support. I would have to pay for it but I can do it.

 

 

I completely understand and respect those points. However hopefully you accept my point - we don’t get support directly from Microsoft generally, but our networks are full of their products.

 

With such a large potential deployment you could save a considerable amount going down the unifi route. Buy a couple of access points and try them. You can sell them on again if you decide it’s not for you - they’re very popular.

 

Oh and if you need paid support, you know where to find me - reasonable rates apply ;-)

[m25man]

I’m in the process of rolling out an HPE Switching and Ruckus solution for a new build.

 

Wasn’t my first choice, but Unifi was dismissed from the race early on as the support wasn’t deemed mature enough, the lack of Layer 3 routing and stacking options make even Netgear look more feature rich.

 

Many of its current limitations will I’m sure be overcome as it is an SDN product with constant ongoing development.

 

Remember that Ubiquiti was a P2P and WISP provider long before it launched Unifi.

It’s not a new product, just a constantly evolving one.

This is its key strength and is still attracting users on a remarkable scale.

(Declaration of interest) I still hold a significant number of UBNT shares in my SIPP!

 

The established brand names have all recently undergone many mergers and acquisitions as they too seek to evolve into fully integrated wireless and wired platforms capable of delivering wire line speeds and security.

Unifi have been doing this since it’s inception.

 

I still try to remain totally impartial and appreciate that every vendor has its strengths and weaknesses but in a climate where staffing and budgets are being cut to the bone who really cares what brand of WiFi you choose as long as it does what you need it to do.

 

Alas, in my own experience as schools continue to cut back on technical staff and salaries they seem to have no choice but to spend more on sophisticated and more expensive outsourced systems in the hope that these will look after themselves and negate the need to employ people who know their stuff!

 

As for Dual cable runs to ceiling outlets,

Every commercial installation now seems to accept this as the standard.

 

In two recent School designs I’ve been involved in where this has been recommended its been cut back as an unnecessary overspend by the LEA/EFA

It seems that 10Gig base T is expected to become the norm for WiFi points.

Smart Rate ports are just a bump in the roadmap.

I’ll let the community here debate that one... 🤨

[Blue_Cookeh]

On the boards of the IEEE standards body.

 

And a few shady big names keep trying to push their own patented technology into the IEEE standards, thankfully failing thus far... being on a standards body doesn't mean much nowadays.

[AlanD]

With such a large potential deployment you could save a considerable amount going down the unifi route. Buy a couple of access points and try them. You can sell them on again if you decide it’s not for you - they’re very popular.

 

...Absolutely agree with that. If anyone's idea of "research" is simply follow someone else on the basis that they say it works - so I'll assume it must be the right choice for me would be certifyably negligent. Get some test kit in...and get it working with Radius, BYOD or whatever. All the big players will be only too happy to lend you kit..but you will have to buy a couple of Unify (I'd go for top of the range HD ones...because they give you the speed benefits of MU-MIMO, 4x4 etc at a fraction of the cost of the others)...no one is going to lend you these for trial...but you will almost vertainly be able to sell them on Ebay for much the same as you bought them for! (which wouldn't be the case for many others...)

 

But also keep in mind that no wireless is going to deliver you "wired" like performance in a dense classroom deployment. Co channel interference, single collision domain, etc, etc - whatever is promised....

[jmak]

Meraki usually have offers where you can sign up to a webinar and get a free AP to trial; Unifi is cheap as chips , so just buy one or three to test; Ruckus have friendly suppliers on here who I'm sure would help you with a trial.

 

The only issue with that approach is whether your testing matches real life. You've got a new build, so presumably not occupied yet and possibly can't test in situ. Also, sometimes things don't work quite the same way when you've got several hundred users...

 

Having said all of that, I'm a happy Unifi user and although we're a smallish school, our local secondary uses them too. They've had them for at least 4 years and only use the basic APs with over 2000 users.