Replacement server (DIY)

[mrwoberts]

I'm just needing a kick in the right direction and a slap around the face to tell me everything is gonna be okay, or not

 

Researched a new server from Dell, Broadberry, and HP, but in the end I've decided I'm going to build one - I get exactly the spec I want, without the 'own brand' issues, I hope {gulp}

 

Server will run Windows Server 2016

Roles - AD, DHCP, DNS, VPN, SQL Server 2012 (SIMS), Solus 3 Deployment, PDQ Deploy & Inventory, and possibly Papercut!

 

Here come the many questions...

1. Am I daft for putting all that demand on the Windows Server?

Our ailing 2008 server is trying so very hard to do this at the moment, and not doing an awful job.

2. How on earth do I safely and reliably migrate from Windows 2008 (not R2) to Windows Server 2016?

This is the most nervous bit for me. I can start all over again, even creating a totally new domain, users, policies, but I'm wondering if that way is actually the harder/troublesome way?

3. Is this server spec okay?

 

MOBO - Supermicro X11SSH-LN4F

_CPU - Xeon E3-1240 v5

_RAM - 32 GB DDR4 (Kit 4 x 8GB)

STOR - 2x Samsung SM863a Enterprise SSD 480GB (RAID 1)

STOR - WD BLACK 1TB (internal twice daily, extra to the NAS backup)

 

I'm buying a separate, dedicated server for file and backup - Synology DS916+ 8GB RAM, 16TB of disks.

 

Edit: Not currently planning on Hyper-V, unless it makes sense to do so...

Edited March 21, 2017 by mrwoberts
OCD, calrity

[Kiest26]

Is this as a Hypervisor or one Server instance running all those roles?

[mrwoberts]

Thanks for asking. Just a standalone - not Hyper-V.

[Kiest26]

It looks like a little OTT in terms of roles to me. I could be wrong but I think it's not considered good practice to install SQL or VPN on a DC.

[Kiest26]

As to a new domain is there any particular reason for that? I'd just migrate to 2016 have a bit of a cleanup, maybe review Group Policy and see if there's anything that could do with being tweaked

[mrwoberts]

Interesting. Would you say then that it makes sense to create a Hyper-V host for these roles (SQL, Solus, VPN)?

 

The domain suggestion was related to how difficult it is to migrate - I've not had to do it before. Not sure of the process...

Also, the current domain is 'admin.school' whereas going forward we want this to now serve the whole school - originally a single server for the office/admin.

[richbrowncardiff]

How many users are hitting the server ? It looks under speccd to me TBH that's a lot of processes on 1 box. My sims server has 64gb of ram on its own!

[Michael]

In answer to your question - will it work - probably, would I recommend it? No I wouldn't.

 

SIMS isn't yet certified for Server 2016, so you could get round this and set the server up as a Hyper-V, then split up the roles accordingly. Install SIMS on a 2012 R2 Hyper-V.

 

My main concern is redundancy, especially in the context of the DC. Having two or more DCs per domain makes a lot of sense, if you've ever had the pleasure of restoring Active Directory.

[Kiest26]

Personally I'd virtualise the lot over several nodes in a cluster but that's not gonna be cheap. Have you ever added an additional DC to a domain? The upgrade process basically involves adding the new DC as an additional domain controller and then demoting the old it's really not that difficult

[mrwoberts]

How many users are hitting the server ?

We're an infant school. Users, there are approx. 20 in the AD - plus office staff, plus SLT. Total device usage/connections, you're talking 40-50.

[mrwoberts]

In answer to your question - will it work - probably, would I recommend it? No I wouldn't.

SIMS isn't yet certified for Server 2016, so you could get round this and set the server up as a Hyper-V, then split up the roles accordingly. Install SIMS on a 2012 R2 Hyper-V.

My main concern is redundancy, especially in the context of the DC. Having two or more DCs per domain makes a lot of sense, if you've ever had the pleasure of restoring Active Directory.

 

Thanks for your honesty. I'd read about SIMS, and that was in the back of my mind, but a few mentions on here that it works, but that's something I'll now reconsider.There is currently a restriction on the MS licensing, in that the school can only have 2 licenses (2 VMS, or 1 Host and 1 VM). Plus, the budget is tight, hence the DIY build.

[mrwoberts]

Personally I'd virtualise the lot over several nodes in a cluster but that's not gonna be cheap. Have you ever added an additional DC to a domain? The upgrade process basically involves adding the new DC as an additional domain controller and then demoting the old it's really not that difficult

Yeah, we've just not got the budget for that, plus I think it would be too complicated and OTT for us. I read that it was considered bad practise to virtualise a DC, in the sense that you then have no physical DC. Is that a valid point?

[richbrowncardiff]

I would say 64Gb Ram. And use Hyper-V it honestly makes sense. contact your software licence company and look at the cost of Server 2012R2/2016 STD. it will allow you 2 x VM's on the host. You really want to separate the roles if you can. Keep core network service on 1 vm (DC Role) then put print onto the host and then Sims on the other VM. look at Veeam to do your backup it makes life much simpler. You can even get Veeam for free for the basic version. if you can afford it build 2 hosts and separate roles out further. IT is only going to grow and you will have a decent setup moving forward

[Kiest26]

Any way of getting any additional licenses? Dell do the Poweredge T20 which is cheap (the Xeon variant being around £300) I'd offload AD, DHCP, DNS and Possibly PDQ inventory off onto one of them and get something with a bit more grunt for your SIMS etc

[richbrowncardiff]

What about refurb servers? ICT-Direct do some great offers. Much cheaper than you may think and they have a decent 2yr warranty

[Kiest26]

Yeah, we've just not got the budget for that, plus I think it would be too complicated and OTT for us. I read that it was considered bad practise to virtualise a DC, in the sense that you then have no physical DC. Is that a valid point?

 

Was that not changed? I'm sure I read something a while ago saying this was no longer the case

[Michael]

If money's tight, then maybe look at changing the MIS. I know this is for another discussion, but has been discussed quite extensively recently on Edugeek. SIMS is expensive, especially for Primary budgets.

 

One option you could look at is installing Windows 10 x64 as the Hyper-V host, then install 2 x Hyper-Vs within that - 2012 R2 for SIMS and 2016 for everything else. Probably your best bet.

[mrwoberts]

Apologies, I should have been more clear. They have an MS OVS agreement, which includes Sever + CALs, but I thought that only covers 2 'installs' of Server OS. I'll double check.

@Kiest26 Nice idea about the separate T20 - I'll see crunch some numbers to see if that will work out. Or, as @richbrowncardiff suggests, possibly a refurb for part of this setup, but I really want something new and shiny - they actually were sold a refurb previously and it just wasn't properly specc'd so they've been a bit burnt there. Hence the paranoia over this setup :-)

[Kiest26]

If money's tight, then maybe look at changing the MIS. I know this is for another discussion, but has been discussed quite extensively recently on Edugeek. SIMS is expensive, especially for Primary budgets.

 

One option you could look at is installing Windows 10 x64 as the Hyper-V host, then install 2 x Hyper-Vs within that - 2012 R2 for SIMS and 2016 for everything else. Probably your best bet.

 

Isn't HyperV Server 2016 more suited? And best of all it's free

[mrwoberts]

So you've got me thinking...

 

Server 1 : Micro Server - i3 Processor, 4 GB RAM, consumer SSD, This will be the DC, with AD, DHCP, and DNS - Server 2016 physical

Server 2 : Manly Server - Xeon Processor, 32 GB RAM, Dual enterprise SSDs in RAID 1 - This will be for SQL Server 2012 (SIMS), and Solus 3 Deployment - Server 2012 R2 physical

 

or

 

1 Physical Server (spec as OP), with 2 VMs (as above)

Edited March 21, 2017 by mrwoberts

[Michael]

Hyper-V is free in all x64 OSes, it's just the OSes which are licensed. Windows 10 x64 Hyper-V and Server 2016 Hyper-V are the same (as far as I'm aware). This gets round the license limitation, if it still stands.

[Kiest26]

So you've got me thinking...

 

Server 1 : Micro Server - i3 Processor, 4 GB RAM, consumer SSD, This will be the DC, with AD, DHCP, and DNS - Server 2016 physical

Server 2 : Manly Server - Xeon Processor, 32 GB RAM, Dual enterprise SSDs in RAID 1 - This will be for SQL Server 2012 (SIMS), and Solus 3 Deployment - Server 2012 R2 physical

 

or

 

1 Physical Server (spec as OP), with 2 VMs (as above)

 

Would both 2 virtual and 2 physical be possible? 1 physical running HyperV the other Physical as DC, DNS, DHCP and could even be a file server if you wish. The HyperV could then have 2 VM's one with SIMS etc and the other as a backup DC/DNS. You really should look at adding a second DC it makes restoring from failures so much easier and prevents outages.

 

As for VPN will you have any spare server hardware? This could be re used as a router and would allow you to keep the VPN functionality at no cost what so ever with something like pfsense.

[mrwoberts]

Ah, sorry, I meant 1 physical server as the Hyper-V host, with 2 VMs (VM1 = DC, with AD, DHCP, and DNS; VM2 = SIMS + SOLUS)

I'd have to try to factor in a lower spec PC to be the second DC. Perhaps to be added once the dust has settled and this changeover has been successful.

I'm assuming adding the second DC as fail-over is relatively straightforward?

@Michael I'll definitely raise the note about SIMS; there are definitely more options nowadays.

[Kiest26]

Yeah it's very straight forward the link below seems to document it quite well

Adding a Windows Server 2016 Domain Controller | PeteNetLive

[jmak]

Apologies, I should have been more clear. They have an MS OVS agreement, which includes Sever + CALs, but I thought that only covers 2 'installs' of Server OS. I'll double check.

@Kiest26 Nice idea about the separate T20 - I'll see crunch some numbers to see if that will work out. Or, as @richbrowncardiff suggests, possibly a refurb for part of this setup, but I really want something new and shiny - they actually were sold a refurb previously and it just wasn't properly specc'd so they've been a bit burnt there. Hence the paranoia over this setup :-)

You need to check your exact entitlement with your MS license reseller. If you're on an ovs agreement, licensing costs won't be your limiting factor here.

 

Licensing this year is by the core and sounds quite complicated, but boils down to: cheapest license is about £30 (for one year) which will give you up to 2 guests on a single Hyper-V host - assuming it's not some monster multi processor octacore monster of a server.

 

You could therefore happily split roles across 2 boxes for about £60.