RFID and students

[enjay]

We're considering adding RFID to our MFDs so students can login quicker. They have a 4-digit ID and PIN which they never remember, and using AD creds is slow. I'd love to hear from anyone who has done/attempted this, who can either tell me I'm mad or confirm it would work. Students don't have badges or anything, but should all carry a planner and they all have phones so could put stickers on one of those.

 

We would probably give them the first sticker or two for free, then charge them for any lost ones after that (much as we do with planners and exercise books). What else should I consider before implementing?

[Boredguy]

I read it that you were considering adding RFID to students, which to be honest is about the only way to ensure they don't loose the tag.

[korifugi]

I read it that you were considering adding RFID to students

 

Like this?

 

[robyholmes]

We have Mifare (RFID) stickers in planners. We are going to look at moving to student ID's next year to try and save costs on buying new stickers each year. Students still login with AD details however from time to time as they can't find there planner in there bag.

[enjay]

I've asked the HT before if we can bar-code the students. She said no.

 

No planner = detention, and replacements are £5 so students generally don't lose them, although they do get pretty tatty (the planners, not the students!). The other option is their phones (BYOD school, so all students are carrying one) since most teenagers would rather lose their arm than their phone.

 

As @robyholmes says, AD details would still be an option, as it is now, but it does take a lot longer for students to ident that way, especially the ones with really long names or passwords.

[MatthewL]

enjay - why use ID and PIN? Why not just use a PIN number? That would speed things up, make it a 5 or 6 digit number but just have the one.

[enjay]

enjay - why use ID and PIN? Why not just use a PIN number? That would speed things up, make it a 5 or 6 digit number but just have the one.

 

Didn't want people being able to guess other users' codes and release their printing.

[googlemad]

Personally when we set this up after a short period we ensured people could only log in using their ID badge. No ID badge, no printing which helped promote the 'No ID badge you shouldn't be on site in the first place' policy

 

It is fairly simple to implement depending on your MFDs and print control software, get some decent USB readers and make sure they're placed in a convenient place within the MFD so that people know where to scan but hidden away so they don't get nicked too easily either!

 

I had a number of sales people tell me they could offer fingerprint scanning these days as an alternative so maybe look into that instead no idea what the cost would be or the laws around storing several hundred staff and student fingerprints mind!

[enjay]

Personally when we set this up after a short period we ensured people could only log in using their ID badge. No ID badge, no printing which helped promote the 'No ID badge you shouldn't be on site in the first place' policy

 

Students don't have to wear ID badges here, only staff. Otherwise, excellent idea, and if we do go ahead with the stickers, we'll definitely put them on staff ID badges to encourage their wear.

 

I had a number of sales people tell me they could offer fingerprint scanning these days as an alternative so maybe look into that instead no idea what the cost would be or the laws around storing several hundred staff and student fingerprints mind!

 

We looked into that when we got the MFDs but were put off by the cost. Okay if we linked in with cashless catering, but our canteen is still doing it the old-fashioned way. The legality of finger printing everyone is fine, but you might need to do some PR on it to reassure parents (how much PR possibly depends on the demographic of your school....!).

 

We've been offered the RFID readers at a very good price, so that's the only option we're considering now.

[MatthewL]

RFID is the way to go, its far cheaper. Biometrics is expensive and you need additional power and network also which soon add's a bit on.

 

A finger print is stored as a number, it takes 3 points from the finger to generate that.

 

I've done it before no ID no print and forced it to card login.

[howartp]

We're planning on RFID for students at either Easter or Summer (depending on timescales of a premises project that's happening concurrently).

 

Considering RFID wristbands rather than badges; less likely to be lost during the day, once they put them on in the morning.

[Tefters]

I've implemented Mifare here in my secondary over the last 4 years.

Use it for the entry gates (staff and sixth form - Net2 Paxton), Cashless Catering System and MFD Printers with Equitrac for printer budgets.

 

I strongly recommend Mifare as its both cost effective and universal. If a student losses their card its £3 replacement at the finance office.

 

Biometrics is a no go for 1 simple reason, it takes 1 parent to complain about having their child's fingerprint on record to mess it all up. Regardless of security 1 parent or child will moan about having their personal unique fingerprint stored on a DB and you got a world of hurt... Trust me I know from when I spent 2 years trying to implement this technology into a business and it fell flat for this reason.

[howartp]

We've already got Bio cashless - had it for 10 years - but want to replace it with RFID at same time as this project.

 

Copiers and current staff badges are Mifare so definitely will be for students.

[MatthewL]

What ever you get make sure they will last, the slightest bit of damage to a card or sticker will render is useless if the damage is in the wrong place.

[caffrey]

Sorry to be OT but @Tefters, what Paxton Readers do you have on the doors ?, we're investigating MIFARE as it seems to be the cheapest option

[Tefters]

Paxton 1st gen door panels which we've had for 5 years now only supported a small handful of cards which did not include Mifare so we had to get a seperate Mifare reader at £80 each and wire them into the Net2 control panels but now the 2nd gen panels which they call the new panels support Mifare direct in the unit.

 

If you just want to do internal doors without an intercom unit then you just buy a Paxton control panel and either 1 or 2 readers dependent on your needs and possibly a push button.

 

We used an installer 5 years ago for our main gates before having a barmy with them about their crap support so went solo and did it all ourselves a year after and have ever since. Paxton support is first class and their warranty is 5 years. While they keep telling me over the phone that I should be using an installer to do the work and replacements its in theory some screws, plugs, ethernet connections and basic wiring along with mag locks so I found a lovely company that will sell me the kit and I just install it myself now

Obviously for the outside gates I use a company to help with the mechanical arms and the magnetic pads we installed under concrete but even they are a pretty simple setup.

 

EDIT - As for software, Its a basic SQL express DB which I host on a VM server and then install the client software onto our finance office PC and Reception PC which a Paxton card reader on each one to deal with the admin side of managing the cards.

Doors times, events and triggers are all pi** easy to setup too.

 

Paxton all the way 100% and their based in Brighton!

 

EDIT 2 - If you want the exact reader I use with my old Gen 1 entry panels its "Paxton Net2 353-467 Proximity Mifare Reader P50". If you're doing a new install now though whether its yourself or through an installer make sure you are getting the new panels not the Gen 1's (aka left over stock) as you will need the reader on top of the panel.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Tefters

[enjay]

Biometrics is a no go for 1 simple reason, it takes 1 parent to complain about having their child's fingerprint on record to mess it all up. Regardless of security 1 parent or child will moan about having their personal unique fingerprint stored on a DB and you got a world of hurt... Trust me I know from when I spent 2 years trying to implement this technology into a business and it fell flat for this reason.

 

Give that one child a PIN number instead, then. One parent shouldn't dictate policy for a thousand.

[enjay]

My original question is irrelevant now anyway, as it turns out the readers we'd been offered aren't compatible with our system. Interesting discussion though.