Facility CMIS Licence Renewal

[Solutions_James]

Just wondered what are people's thoughts about renewing the Facility CMIS licence, seems Link2ICT cannot offer a renewal and Advanced Learning are not in a position to offer direct yet.

 

Has anyone else heard anything please?

[APC]

I would hold fire for a few days and see what happens - message as always in these circumstances is don't rush into any decision

[dhm83]

I spoke to Link for a while yesterday afternoon, and it is true that Link are no longer going to be supporting Advanced Learning products CMIS and Progresso. All the licenses and support will cease on 31st March as negotiations with Advanced broke down. Advanced wanted to implement 13% increases to their license costs and took the finance only option of CMIS off the table. The only options I have been told about is we take our chances and go to Advanced directly for licensing and support but we could be subjected to 13% price increases, or we can take a potential offer from Link to migrate to SIMS at a reduced cost. They told me that this cost would equate to the same money we are currently paying for license and support from Link for CMIS or Progresso. However I spoke to the Birmingham rep at Capita yesterday and he said there was no way that all the migrations and conversions would happen before the licenses expire. At that point he couldn't even confirm that a deal was in place with Link to take all the CMIS/Progresso customers. I am hoping that some more information will come out at the Link conference tomorrow, as we now have 4 weeks and counting to sort out this mess. I spoke to someone at Advanced this morning to be told there was a queue of Birmingham schools contacting them and that they would get back to us in due course. So who knows what is going on now? I await the next update from the MIS team. Hope this has cleared things up for everyone.

[Michael]

I think there are several issues (in addition to the above), which still haven't been addressed -

 

- After the 31st March 2016, are schools permitted to continue using CMIS or must they discontinue using it altogether?

- What happens regarding the May 2016 Census? This is a legal requirement and without it will affect funding.

- In the event schools do migrate to another solution, would schools still need to pay Advanced Learning a license to access old financial data (for audit purposes)?

- I agree that for Link2ICT to migrate so many schools in a short period is logistically unrealistic if not impossible, but shouldn't there be a tendering process and not just pushing for SIMS? This isn't just about migrating cheaply to a new/alternative MIS system, you have to consider training Staff too as they're completely different systems. Who's going to pay for this?

- How do we know that Capita won't hike up their prices in 12/24 months? The answer is we don't!

- SIMS isn't a cloud based solution and I think logically, if schools do end up moving, then it should be to a cloud solution rather than a locally or centrally hosted solution. Don't get me wrong, SIMS is good, but even existing schools who use SIMS will move to a cloud based system at some point.

- Quite rightly Staff who remember the old version of SIMS will question why they should move back to SIMS.net, when it was Link2ICT who pushed schools to move to Facility CMIS in the first place?

 

I think the best policy is to wait and see what happens after negotiations are completed, however (at the time of writing) a decision needs to be made within 17 working days (by Thursday 24th March), as of course Friday is Good Friday, then the Easter break.

[dhm83]

These are all questions I put to them yesterday, with no answers forthcoming. It will be interesting to hear what details if any we hear about this tomorrow.

[Bromcom-PR]

I think there are several issues (in addition to the above), which still haven't been addressed -

 

+ + + + +

 

- .... but shouldn't there be a tendering process and not just pushing for SIMS?

 

+ + + + +

 

 

Yes - you are spot on Michael!

[APC]

The latest from Link2ICT, received yesterday afternoon is:

 

As you may or may not know, much to our surprise and regret, Advanced Learning very recently informed us that it had decided not to renew Link2ICT’s licence agreement which enables Link2ICT to provide you with Progresso and Facility (CMIS) software.

 

Should this happen it would bring to an end a very long standing business relationship with Advanced Learning, made all the more surprising as it was Link2ICT that identified the need for the products and helped Advanced Learning to develop it. Advanced Learning was taken over by a venture capitalist in 2015 and this may have been the reason behind the change in direction. Despite meeting with it regularly after the takeover, Advanced Learning gave us no indication that it was intending on such a fundamental change in strategy.

 

Having offered us a licence renewal price some 13% higher than the current price, which was both unexpected and unpalatable, ACS then informed us that it would not be renewing the licence. Since that point Link2ICT has been locked in discussions with Advanced Learning in an attempt to find a way of preventing disruption and enabling us to continue offering our MIS service to you.

 

We are delighted to be able to advise you that following a significant amount of effort by us over the last few weeks, Advanced Learning has agreed to re-enter into negotiations with Link2ICT. We will update you on this situation as we make progress.

 

Accordingly we would kindly request that you give us a bit more time before you make any decisions in respect of your Facility (CMIS) or Progresso requirements for this coming year.

 

We realise this has been far from ideal and thank you for your patience so far.

 

 

[Michael]

I think that publication is very clear and to the point, but I can't help but think this is getting very political and legal, as both organisations have an obligation to support/manage schools in terms of their MIS, but I appreciate also schools can go with any system of their choosing.

 

I'd agree we need to wait for a final outcome, but time is very quickly ticking away. In the short term (realistically) schools will need to remain with Facility then explore other options - exactly as I wrote above, a tendering process. This doesn't just impact administrative Staff, but Teachers taking the Class Register and more, so training/support is just as important.

[Solutions_James]

Has anyone else spoken to Advanced Learning? I spoke to them Tuesday and needless to say was informed of a different set of events, definitely two sides of the story!

 

Hopefully something can be resolved asap, just to give the school's a bit of peace of mind.

[Michael]

Has anyone else spoken to Advanced Learning? I spoke to them Tuesday and needless to say was informed of a different set of events, definitely two sides of the story!

 

Hopefully something can be resolved asap, just to give the school's a bit of peace of mind.

 

To be honest I'm not overly surprised, but then at the same time I don't really care about their differences... it's schools that matter and the sooner a solution is announced the better. This situation isn't really helping anybody and should have been resolved in a matter of hours, not almost a week!

[Solutions_James]

To be honest I'm not overly surprised, but then at the same time I don't really care about their differences... it's schools that matter and the sooner a solution is announced the better. This situation isn't really helping anybody and should have been resolved in a matter of hours, not almost a week!

 

Totally agree with you!

[sniffingmoose]

We are in the Same boat here. Its not good. On our LinkToIct renewal quote last week our Link to ICT account manager says he cannot offer a price for Facility CMIS but please budget for the licence and support. Its getting very close to the end of the licence so I wonder if anyone heard anything this week or should I approach Advance Learning direct and bypass LinkToIct?

[JOrdan01070]

I have spoken to advanced learning and got the pricing for us to go direct with them for either 1 year or 3 years both were cheaper than what link was offering, but a day later I was told I had to wait as talks had started again between Link and Advanced learning and wait and see what happens.

[sniffingmoose]

Thanks for the info, we will all have to sit tight and wait to hear from LinkToICT.

[Michael]

Realistically to migrate to a different MIS system now (end/start of the financial year for many), but you also have to remember there are hundreds of schools in Birmingham using Facility CMIS, so we're all in the same boat.

 

I'm pretty sure a deal will be reached due to the Census required after the Easter break, but hopefully by then the situation will be clear and the options will be on the table.

 

Migrating to a different system or sourcing support differently needs to be consulted at all levels and it would be foolish (in my view) to make a decision at this stage. Of course if the large license increase becomes a reality, then of course each school needs to explore its options.

[ToyHeartsFan]

Same here, I went direct to advanced learning and was told that it would probably be cheaper but as of Friday their Managing Director was asking for a few more days because they were still negotiating with link2ict and believed that they would have "clarity" this week. Hopefully we will all hear something soon and this can be resolved amicably, the way this has been handled isn't great to say the least, you can't compare MIS systems train staff and migrate within the space of a month.

[sharonk]

Interesting updates, I really wouldn't even consider more than a one year license as Facility is not being developed for anything other than the DfE requirements and having spoken to several Progresso schools that isn't an option either. I have heard from a colleague at another school that an upgrade to Progresso over the weekend stopped them from being able to take registers this morning adding even more fuel to their desire to move away asap.

[sharonk]

I have just seen the following update from Link2ICT - so it looks like a deal has been completed.

 

Advanced Learning – Progresso and Facility CMIS Update

Dear Colleague,

 

Further to our previous communication, the announcement made at the Link2ICT Conference and our recent telephone conversation.

 

We are delighted to confirm formally that following protracted negotiations with Advanced Learning we will be able to provide you with licences and support for Facility (CMIS) and Progresso software for the next twelve months.

 

The one major difference from previous years is that whilst your support is procured through Link2ICT, Advanced Learning will become your primary point of contact for Facility (CMIS) and Progresso software support this coming financial year. This was Advanced Learning’s key condition for signing up to the deal. As a result we will be revising and reissuing your current service level agreement to provide the relevant contact details for Advanced Learning.

 

Please note however that Advanced Learning has agreed that if it is unable or unwilling to provide you with support then Link2ICT will be entitled to step-in on your behalf.

 

It is disappointing that after more than a decade of selling and supporting its software in Birmingham schools, Advanced Learning had chosen to bring its relationship with Link2ICT to an end. Rather than it having been a big bang over a rapid timescale as Advanced Learning was originally envisaging, this deal at least means we can manage the transition from old to new over twelve months.

 

The subscription price for the financial year 2016/2017 has been communicated to you already however details can now be found on the Link2ICT support portal at http://www.link2ict.servicenow.com. You will note that Link2ICT is not passing on the 13% increase in cost that Advanced Learning has charged it.

 

Whilst far from ideal we believe that the agreement between Advanced Learning and Link2ICT provides the optimal approach to protecting Schools’ interests for the coming year.

[Michael]

The one major difference from previous years is that whilst your support is procured through Link2ICT, Advanced Learning will become your primary point of contact for Facility (CMIS) and Progresso software support this coming financial year. This was Advanced Learning’s key condition....

 

This really needs clarifying - if Advanced Learning are the primary contact, then what's the point Link2ICT offering any MIS service at all? And does this mean schools will be charged twice if Advanced Learning are unwilling or unable to help and Link2ICT step in? It all seems very cagey to me.

 

You will note that Link2ICT is not passing on the 13% increase in cost that Advanced Learning has charged it..

 

That's nice, but this just means schools will be screwed over in 12 months time, but no doubt Link2ICT have 'plans' as to how they're going to make up the difference in charges.

[sharonk]

This really needs clarifying - if Advanced Learning are the primary contact, then what's the point Link2ICT offering any MIS service at all? And does this mean schools will be charged twice if Advanced Learning are unwilling or unable to help and Link2ICT step in? It all seems very cagey to me.

 

It seems simple to me - I read this as Link2ICT are selling their support and they will step in as and when Advanced Learning are unable or unwilling to assist...

 

If that's the only deal Advanced Learning were able to offer, then it seems as if Link2ICT have done their best to at least give schools a one year window to look at alternatives. Would have been great to be forced to go direct now with no notice at all.

[Michael]

I guess it remains to be seen then how much the support will be and whether it'll be 13% higher than last year. There's no such thing as a free lunch (sorry to sound negative)

[Solutions_James]

It seems like a workaround for the next 12 months, I imagine both companies will be pushing schools to migrate away from Facility to either Advanced Learning's Progresso or Service Birmingham SIMS.

 

Fingers crossed the support level does not change and effect the schools.

[JOrdan01070]

@Michael the quotes I had from Advanced learning included the support and from what I have seen you will only pay what Link2ict had quoted on the subscription charges for the next year. I have asked Advanced Learning if we can go direct as the school would save a fair amount, over Link2icts costs but was told we have to go through them for now.

[Michael]

It seems like a workaround for the next 12 months, I imagine both companies will be pushing schools to migrate away from Facility to either Advanced Learning's Progresso or Service Birmingham SIMS.

 

Fingers crossed the support level does not change and effect the schools.

 

Of course, let the battles begin

[Michael]

@Michael the quotes I had from Advanced learning included the support and from what I have seen you will only pay what Link2ict had quoted on the subscription charges for the next year. I have asked Advanced Learning if we can go direct as the school would save a fair amount, over Link2icts costs but was told we have to go through them for now.

 

It's not right, but the only positive that can come out of this is competition, but also choice moving forward.