Shortcomings of ASUS eee PC and why XP is better

[SimpleSi]

Please use this thread to tell us all how the ASUS eee PC is rubbish.

 

And how bad the OS is.

 

And how it runs XP fine despite the low-power processor and small hard drive space.

 

etc etc

 

regards

 

Simon

 

PS see other thread is you don't why I've posted this!

[CyberNerd]

And how bad the OS is.

It's single user. It lacks security.

[torledo]

It's single user. It lacks security.

 

could you explain why the single use aspect is such a problem. my understanding was that the eee IS a personal machine not designed to be a 'pool' laptop used by many different people.

 

I don't have a problem with the OS security issues or not....the three biggest problems with the eee is the battery life, screen size and biggest wart of all that damn trackpad/click....i've lost count of the number of times i've complained about it. i think people are being a little bit premature as they dream of using windows on the 8g version or dream up other ways of conquering the world with the eee......asus need to sort out the ergonomics pronto. give us a trackstick for finer controll of navigation and as a result we could get sightly bigger keys.

[CyberNerd]

There is no password for the 'root' account. This is what I meant by single user. My issue for the security is in a school environment, when the students could send each other scripts to kill their classmates computers. There is also no password on the bootloader, this allows users to get a simple root shell.

 

In contrast, I don't really have an issue with the build of the thing -I see it as a 'more useful' PDA rather than a 'less useful laptop'

[crc-ict]

There is no password for the 'root' account.

 

How much of a problem is this, really, in the school world, though?

 

How many people in the average school (apart from the techies) actually have any notion of what 'root' is, let alone know how to make use of it, maliciously or otherwise?

 

The fact remains that Linux is still very niche in the real world (whatever Linux fanboys, sorry, experts might like to think), and I find it hard to believe that it is a real problem. Yeah, sure, theoretically it's a terrible risk, but surely we're concerned with reality here.

 

Chris

[SimpleSi]

Just my t'penny worth...

 

You go open a file from a windows server (Having navigated through many double-clicks) and its says - I'll have to make a copy of that file because I don't speak SMB properly (to paraphrase)

 

That's not a good start

 

regards

 

Simon

[tech_guy]

Well if I ever get mine back off my daughter and stick Ubuntu on it I'll be able to let you know how I get on. Mine arrived in the new year and she promptly ran off with it. She's using it like a rather large PDA but as she's taken it to school some of her friends and her teachers want one now....

[CyberNerd]

@crc-ict

 

I don't think you are giving the kids enough credit. kids can be geetks too.

Once word gets around every kid in the school with any interest will know of an exploit. Generally I know who the chief 'hackers' are. We've one kid who had written his own "linux from scratch" distro by the time he was yr10 - with virtually no input from the techs - he had it network PXE booting for a yr11 project. We currently have some yr 7 and 8's that i'm pretty confident would find the su problem - they already know how scripts work (ok, that was my fault) -but these kids were already running linux at home before any contact with techs.

IMO, the reality is that the geeky kids will always migrate to *nix because they read the forums, they read the tech news, linux is free and is the ultimate hacker tool - kids know this.

[crc-ict]

@crc-ict

 

I don't think you are giving the kids enough credit. kids can be geetks too.

Once word gets around every kid in the school with any interest will know of an exploit. Generally I know who the chief 'hackers' are. We've one kid who had written his own "linux from scratch" distro by the time he was yr10 - with virtually no input from the techs - he had it network PXE booting for a yr11 project. We currently have some yr 7 and 8's that i'm pretty confident would find the su problem - they already know how scripts work (ok, that was my fault) -but these kids were already running linux at home before any contact with techs.

IMO, the reality is that the geeky kids will always migrate to *nix because they read the forums, they read the tech news, linux is free and is the ultimate hacker tool - kids know this.

 

Wow, sounds like you have some seriously talented kids at your school!

 

I suppose I should have declared that I'm from the Primary camp - I've always held the thought that the Eee would be mostly of use in Primary, I suppose I thought the needs of Secondary would be too high. But I do see your point - never really imagined things like that going on in schools at all. What a sheltered life we lead in Primary!

 

Chris

[Andrew_C]

The fact remains that Linux is still very niche in the real world (whatever Linux fanboys, sorry, experts might like to think), and I find it hard to believe that it is a real problem. Yeah, sure, theoretically it's a terrible risk, but surely we're concerned with reality here.

You are Jeremy Clarkson and I claim my £10! Seriously though, the kids here would run rings round that level of "security".

[tech_guy]

We've got one serious hacker - bless him; he never does anything to the school network, but I did catch him the other day attempting to inject sql strings into a pretty major website to see if he could do it some harm....

[Dos_Box]

I'll just add my opinion here, cosidering I'm possibly the only person her who has played with the XP version for real.

The XP varient will ship with XP Home only, again reinfoircing the single user ideal behind the machine. Whilst it did run XP OK (ish) playback of video was jerky (unlike the Linux OS) and the 8GB SSD will fill up alarmingly quickly once patches and software are added to bring it up to the spec of the origional Linux varient there will be little free space.

XP on there looks nice but it really is a no go IHMO.

[Dos_Box]

And just to annoy you I shall take notes on the Linux version at the Lancashire techies meeting

[torledo]

I'll just add my opinion here, cosidering I'm possibly the only person her who has played with the XP version for real.

The XP varient will ship with XP Home only, again reinfoircing the single user ideal behind the machine. Whilst it did run XP OK (ish) playback of video was jerky (unlike the Linux OS) and the 8GB SSD will fill up alarmingly quickly once patches and software are added to bring it up to the spec of the origional Linux varient there will be little free space.

XP on there looks nice but it really is a no go IHMO.

 

I can completely agree with that dos_box even though i've not tried the xp variant........

 

what bugs me is there appears to be no intention on asus's part to offer a linux version of the 8 gig model.

[Theblacksheep]

People dont give the children enough credit.

 

Even if they dont know what root is, if its open they WILL find it. They will read on forums and they will find out how to do the basic tasks (MSN, GAMES). They can install what they want... its terribly setup for school use. Despite removing skype, others have got it back again from passing binarys around on USB sticks and we've had to write some specific programmes to prevent this.

 

The system requires 'root' just to boot, so you have to tread carefully as to what you block or modify. Ours are locked down to a considerable level, but still no where near what I would like.

 

Some have been playing with consoles, lucky its poor brute force methods, but others have started working out how to run other programmes.

 

There were ways to circum navigate our websense server via the web browser (fixed now but open by default from KCN, your maybe too). They can also install firefox extensions.

 

Skype traffic is very hard to ban...

 

Bios and grub need modifying.

 

The RM 'solution' for connecting to network shares is pratically useless.

 

The list goes on... but in short its only fit for primary use out of the box. The root access was a crime, so much so we're thinking of creating our own linux OS distro for next year, its just too insecure and dangerous for school networks.

 

We've had ours since late October and i've installed XP (useless with 4g), XP-lite several times (useable), linux mint and ubuntu. I dont think XP is better, you can hardly add anything to it before its full.... XP-lite is good, but then you are looking at a simelar level of configuration to a linux config, of which IMHO linux is better.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Theblacksheep

[Jona]

Is it not possible to set a root password??

 

Also I believe you can strip the default OS off and put ubuntu on which might address some of these issues.

[CyberNerd]

Is it not possible to set a root password??

 

Also I believe you can strip the default OS off and put ubuntu on which might address some of these issues.

 

the blank root password is needed for it to boot.

I have eeexubuntu running, it's ok but a it slow to boot.

[Theblacksheep]

Is it not possible to set a root password??

 

Yes, but then what about sudo

 

then sudo su

 

then passwd (sudo passwd)

 

then the programme that starts when you boot it for the first time that resets passwords.

 

Its not so simple.

[Geoff]

You can edit /etc/sudoers to stop that.

[CyberNerd]

it needs root to boot, the sudoers was the first thing I tried - just get a blank screen

[Theblacksheep]

You can edit /etc/sudoers to stop that.

 

You can but the sheer level of changes nessessary to that and the boot loader, bios, preventing it from running certain programmes, removing programmes, password shadowing, setting up both visual vnc and console, update control, modifying permissions, modifying them for specific students and its not simple or easy anymore...

 

Not to mention useless RM solutions.

 

You can do alot of things, if you know what you are doing and have the time.

 

 

 

 

Cybernerd - modifying the sudoers does work (must be done in linux on a ext2 or 3 drive), it just takes quite a bit of working out and you have to put in nopasswd/passwd lines for certain programmes to let it boot. Keep at it!

Edited February 6, 2008 by Theblacksheep

[nickholme]

How about if someone manages to come up with their own version which addresses the shortcomings, it could be made availabe through edugeek for any other school that wants to try it. I certainly don't have the in depth knowledge to build my own distribution, but I think the eee's are great in principle.

[SimpleSi]

How about if someone manages to come up with their own version which addresses the shortcomings, it could be made availabe through edugeek for any other school

 

What a brilliant idea

 

I wish I'd thought of that

 

http://edugeek.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14823

 

Anyway - this is the thread for people to say how rubbish it is and just poo-poo it.

 

The machine as it stands is just a standalone laptop - if you have a policy not to allow such a device if it was XP laptop then you should'nt let this one in either.

 

If security is not a big issue (as in most primaries - still looking for an ubergeek to help me out in mine ) then its OK.

 

Except for that fact that its tricky to print or open/save files

 

But me and Cybernerd are hopefully working on that.

 

More volunteers would be welcome - especially trying to get an automount samba share to work but keep getting bitten by the fact that creative geek scripts that they post aren't the actual scripts that they use but just what they think they wrote into them

 

regards

 

Simon

PS People

Please pop over to other threads with ideas (and code!)

[CyberNerd]

I'm really going off the default xandros now, A friend showed me his eeepc last night running eeexubuntu - he's tweaked it to run compiz which it does very well (he added 512MB for £12). He reckons the default install is just too old (in terms of libraries etc) to get anything new like this on it.