koryo Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I just posted the below onto the Toshiba Support forum - but I thought it would be good to place it here as well and see if anyone else has ideas on the below. https://forum.toshiba.eu/showthread.php?87959-Satellite-Pro-R50-B-12N-OCZ-Vertex-460A-UEFI-Install -------------------------- Hi Everyone I am having a fantastic problem with trying to install an SSD into one of our Toshiba Laptops and enabling UEFI. Here is a brief summary of the components involved: OCZ Vertex 460A SSD Installed to replace the mechanical HDD. - Firmware on SSD is up to date Toshiba Satellite Pro R50-B-12N Laptop - BIOS version is at 1.40, EC version is at 1.20 Windows 7 Enterprise X64 to install MDT 2013 Update 1 to deploy from PXE booting to install Windows 7 with Lite Touch deployment Secure Boot is Disabled UEFI Enabled When I attempt to install a Windows 7 image, the initial MDT deployment process works correctly with no error messages. The disk seems to be partitioned correctly for an EFI boot disk, and the install.wim has extracted onto the windows partition. unattend.xml applies and the laptop reboots. When the laptop reboots however, an error message comes up requesting I install a system disk and press any key to continue. I am only aware of this error happening if a boot disk is not detected or the hard drive fails. Interestingly if I disable UEFI, and go through the deployment process again, this issue does not occur. The laptop restarts and continues the installation without a problem when running in CSM mode. Can anyone answer the following queries for me please? 1) If I am running in CSM mode, I am under the impression that UEFI is dis-abled so I am not getting any of the benefits of using UEFI instead of the BIOS. Is this correct? 2) Windows 7 is capable of UEFI booting as long as Secure Boot is disabled. As this is a SATA drive there are no drivers required for this HDD to work (according to he OCZ website) - I don't believe this is a driver fault, as the OS doesn't load. 3) If you need more detail with regards to this fault could you list them for me to retrieve? I have to wipe and reinstall the laptop each time in order for me to do this currently. I would appreciate any help with the above fault. I currently believe this to be a fault with the laptops UEFI boot implementation however I would like a third party opinion on this if possible? Thanks for your time and assistance with this query.
mrwoberts Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Just a few questions... The mechanical HDD that was present before the SSD, did that have a GPT disk layout and Windows x64 installed, together with UEFI enabled? Have you attempted a manual install on the SSD, with GPT, UEFI and 7x64 (you gotta love these acronyms)? The benefits of Windows 7 and UEFI have been asked a lot on the Internet, but I've never really 'seen' the benefits of installing 7x64 with UEFI enabled. I get the impression the later OSes 8, 8.1, 10 make better use of the UEFI implementation. 1
koryo Posted November 24, 2015 Author Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Have you turned off secure boot? Yes - Secure Boot Disabled Just a few questions... The mechanical HDD that was present before the SSD, did that have a GPT disk layout and Windows x64 installed, together with UEFI enabled? Have you attempted a manual install on the SSD, with GPT, UEFI and 7x64 (you gotta love these acronyms)? The benefits of Windows 7 and UEFI have been asked a lot on the Internet, but I've never really 'seen' the benefits of installing 7x64 with UEFI enabled. I get the impression the later OSes 8, 8.1, 10 make better use of the UEFI implementation. 1) Was UEFI enabled on the old HDD with Win 7 Ent X64? - Yes 2) Was the old HDD using GPT or MBR? - GPT I attempted to boot the Windows 7 Enterprise with SP1 installation disk, but it froze loading the logo (I presume a driver issue, not had a chance to investigate further yet). Edited November 24, 2015 by koryo Adding Detail
mrwoberts Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Okay. Were you booting from a DVD or USB; either way, did you force the media to boot from UEFI - bringing up the boot menu (usually F12) and choosing UEFI: Lexar 16GB usb drive.../ UEFI: DVD manufacturer... Also, does your installation media have updates already integrated/slipstreamed, or is this an untouched (iso) ? 1
Michael Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Unfortunately UEFI isn't just UEFI, there are more flavours/versions than many are aware of. I suspect this (most likely) is why Windows 7 won't boot as you require. I suspect if you tried Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, it will probably work fine. 1
koryo Posted November 24, 2015 Author Posted November 24, 2015 Okay. Were you booting from a DVD or USB; either way, did you force the media to boot from UEFI - bringing up the boot menu (usually F12) and choosing UEFI: Lexar 16GB usb drive.../ UEFI: DVD manufacturer... Also, does your installation media have updates already integrated/slipstreamed, or is this an untouched (iso) ? DVD, Untouched ISO from VLSC, Yes I used the boot menu to select the DVD drive. I have just done the same after changing the settings from UEFI to CSM as a test for that, and it appears that the untouched ISO can load from the DVD drive in CSM mode, but not UEFI. Funny that.... Pretty sure that part is driver related regardless, because it's a different issue than the one I am trying to resolve. Unfortunately UEFI isn't just UEFI, there are more flavours/versions than many are aware of. I suspect this (most likely) is why Windows 7 won't boot as you require. I suspect if you tried Windows 8, 8.1 or 10, it will probably work fine. *Starts to research more in-depth with regards to UEFI versions and supported booting with Windows 7* - I know Windows 7 is stated to be UEFI compatible, and I have it running on other R50 laptops with HDD's in. So why not with the SSD?
Michael Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 But let me guess, you bought x amount of R50's fairly recently and then you've bought a few more R50's very recently? Toshiba always make slight hardware/software revisions all the time, despite still being branded as an R50 in this case. Sometimes Toshiba (as good as they are), do mess up though. I remember some C50's (I think), without a built in optical drive, also couldn't boot from a USB optical drive due to 'a technical limitation' as they put it. In the end, booting from USB flash or PXE solved the problem. Your problem very much sounds like another Toshiba 'problem' rather than yourself to be honest. 1
mrwoberts Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 @koryo Just to be clear, are you confirming that an 'identical' setup (bios version, 64 bit image, memory size...), with the exception of hdd vs. ssd, will deploy as previously described ?? 1
mrwoberts Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Just going off on a tangent a little... Try searching for this sentence in Google "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away"
koryo Posted November 25, 2015 Author Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) @koryo Just to be clear, are you confirming that an 'identical' setup (bios version, 64 bit image, memory size...), with the exception of hdd vs. ssd, will deploy as previously described ?? Yes (Confirmed with original RAM). I had placed 16GB of Crucial Ballistix Sport RAM in with this new HDD. Just to be 100% I have now installed the original 4GB of (I believe it to be Samsung) RAM and am re-imaging the SSD as we speak. My spidery sense is shouting that the RAM has nothing to do with it, but let's get that little niggle 100% out of the way too. But let me guess, you bought x amount of R50's fairly recently and then you've bought a few more R50's very recently? Toshiba always make slight hardware/software revisions all the time, despite still being branded as an R50 in this case. Sometimes Toshiba (as good as they are), do mess up though. I remember some C50's (I think), without a built in optical drive, also couldn't boot from a USB optical drive due to 'a technical limitation' as they put it. In the end, booting from USB flash or PXE solved the problem. Your problem very much sounds like another Toshiba 'problem' rather than yourself to be honest. If this test doesn't work, then I will have to contact Toshiba and OCZ and make them aware. It will be quite odd since OCZ is a Toshiba group company so I would have thought it would just work out of the box. Is it possible that there is a problem somewhere on the new SSD that would effect the GPT being read from the SSD, without generating a write-error, but not effect an MBR? Edited November 25, 2015 by koryo
koryo Posted November 25, 2015 Author Posted November 25, 2015 Update - I have contacted both OCZ, and Toshiba. Both support groups have been through this thread and are investigating for me. This will be an interesting case! I can't wait to investigate it further!
Michael Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 I can't see why the HDD or SSD has any relevancy on booting with a UEFI BIOS. I suspect it's most likely that - either a BIOS issue, (the UEFI version implemented) or an OS compatibility issue, despite Microsoft stating x64 versions will work with any (as I understand it) UEFI version, but as always, developments move on. I'm guessing the notebook came pre-installed with a version of Windows 8, which proves the point it works with the UEFI BIOS, as would Windows 10 (more than likely). 1
koryo Posted November 26, 2015 Author Posted November 26, 2015 I can't see why the HDD or SSD has any relevancy on booting with a UEFI BIOS. I suspect it's most likely that - either a BIOS issue, (the UEFI version implemented) or an OS compatibility issue, despite Microsoft stating x64 versions will work with any (as I understand it) UEFI version, but as always, developments move on. I'm guessing the notebook came pre-installed with a version of Windows 8, which proves the point it works with the UEFI BIOS, as would Windows 10 (more than likely). With the original HDD installed, with all the same UEFI enabled settings on, I can correctly image the laptop and go through the setup without any issues. This proves that the OS is not at fault and is fully compatible with the laptop. With the SSD installed I have the above issue. Something is amiss here and I hope that the manufacturers can help me pin it down!
mrwoberts Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 Morning. This is a bit of a tricky one isn't, but you've clearly done a lot of testing and can now lay the fault at the feet of Toshiba/OCZ. How about these scenarios, just in case you had so much time on your hands - Flash the previous version(s) uefi firmware to the troublesome laptop - The troublesome SSD in a physically different Pro R50-B - WD40, a large hammer and some gaffa tape - the above suggestions are to be considered dangerous to the health of the equipment and the user; try them at your own risk 1
koryo Posted November 26, 2015 Author Posted November 26, 2015 Morning. This is a bit of a tricky one isn't, but you've clearly done a lot of testing and can now lay the fault at the feet of Toshiba/OCZ. How about these scenarios, just in case you had so much time on your hands - Flash the previous version(s) uefi firmware to the troublesome laptop - The troublesome SSD in a physically different Pro R50-B - WD40, a large hammer and some gaffa tape - the above suggestions are to be considered dangerous to the health of the equipment and the user; try them at your own risk Maybe I should buy that shirt I saw last week.... It went something along the lines of *I VOID WARRANTIES* <- Not really but it was a good shirt! Thanks for the extra advice. It was tested with a previous BIOS version and updated to the latest to try and resolve the issue, so no luck there. Placing the SSD in another R50-B sounds interesting (although I am pretty sure of the outcome being the same) - I shall proceed to do that shortly - watch this space. Failing that your third piece of advice sounds great too but I will probably hold off on that one!
mrwoberts Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 One other test... The troublesome SSD in a totally different model/make of laptop; that might isolate whether this is an OCZ of Tosh problem. 1
koryo Posted November 26, 2015 Author Posted November 26, 2015 One other test... The troublesome SSD in a totally different model/make of laptop; that might isolate whether this is an OCZ of Tosh problem. My thoughts exactly!
difinity Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 Does the original HDD have a GPT partition ? On a side note I have that awesome t-shirt.
koryo Posted December 1, 2015 Author Posted December 1, 2015 Update - Right! More Interesting Stuff! I have followed some instructions from Toshiba with regards to manually partitioning the disk and imaging. After doing so, and restarting the laptop, I still had the exact same issue, and no errors when applying the image. I have since taken out the SSD in the state as configured above, and placed it into a Toshiba L830 laptop. Changed the BIOS settings to boot to UEFI and hey presto, I get the windows boot screen up and setup attempts to run! I believe this points to an issue with the R50 laptops. 1) It has been proven that the SSD drive is capable of booting to GPT UEFI correctly in another model laptop. If it was an issue with the OCZ SSD or it's firmware I would not have expected this to work. 2) It has been proven that the R50 laptops are capable of booting to GPT UEFI when installed on the original HDD, but not when booting to this particular SSD. I have e-mailed Toshiba back with this and am awaiting a response. Hopefully this is getting somewhere! ^_^
koryo Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Update : This is still an on-going issue. A query has been sent through to Toshiba Germany, and now forwarded to Toshiba Japan to find out if this laptop model is capable of UEFI booting correctly with Windows 7 X64 as a few people over at Toshiba are currently unable to get it to do so. This issue seems to be taking quite a bit of time to gain traction. Has anyone else come across this problem at all?
NviGate_Systems Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) UEFI has it's days. At work I'm the only one who fully understands UEFI and typically if a troublesome machine has any variant of UEFI and they can't make headway, they leave it for me. Also of note is that some consumer class PC's that ran Windows 7 shipped with a Hybrid UEFI, capable of running CSM but also wanting UEFI by default for Windows. For example on some HP's (Specifically later AIO's) if you install Windows in CSM mode it only works if you can invoke it from Boot Menu. If you use GPT/UEFI, it works properly. Windows 8 fixed many of the issues regarding UEFI, but 7 is still a mixed bag. Plus, it's only supported on SP1 in AMD64 images, not IA32. Also, if you want a diagnostic disc for this R50, I have the diagnostic ISO from Toshiba Canada, as I have ASP Access. Sadly I can't look up BOM for units in other regions but usually diagnostic discs will work for other regions. It's 38MB, easily uploaded. Edited January 29, 2016 by NviGate_Systems Updated with TDIAGS
koryo Posted February 2, 2016 Author Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) UEFI has it's days. At work I'm the only one who fully understands UEFI and typically if a troublesome machine has any variant of UEFI and they can't make headway, they leave it for me. Also of note is that some consumer class PC's that ran Windows 7 shipped with a Hybrid UEFI, capable of running CSM but also wanting UEFI by default for Windows. For example on some HP's (Specifically later AIO's) if you install Windows in CSM mode it only works if you can invoke it from Boot Menu. If you use GPT/UEFI, it works properly. Windows 8 fixed many of the issues regarding UEFI, but 7 is still a mixed bag. Plus, it's only supported on SP1 in AMD64 images, not IA32. Also, if you want a diagnostic disc for this R50, I have the diagnostic ISO from Toshiba Canada, as I have ASP Access. Sadly I can't look up BOM for units in other regions but usually diagnostic discs will work for other regions. It's 38MB, easily uploaded. Hi @NviGate_Systems Thanks for the offer of the diagnostics disk. I have been on the TPCMP course, so have access to the extranet to get their diagnostic tools, latest firmwares ect. I have tested this system with Windows 8.1 as per their instructions, I get to exactly the same place when using the default install.wim from the Windows 8.1 disk! Edited February 2, 2016 by koryo
koryo Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 I am currently still awaiting a response from Toshiba on this. Apparently the engineer communicating with Toshiba Japan is not happy with their responses and keeps having to go back to them to confirm details (I am not included on the conversation currently). This has been going on now since 26/11/2015 - so nearly 4 months without any real headway on the query. I am feeling rather disappointed at the moment. Any advice on requesting this to proceed quicker or do I just need to be more patient?
mrwoberts Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Hi koryo Just looking back at your OP, and I noted that you use MDT 2013 Update 1 to deploy from. Well, from what I've been reading, related to MDT 2013 update 1, that update was particularly problematic. Is it worth trying with Update 2 ? Download Microsoft Deployment Toolkit (MDT) 2013 Update 2 from Official Microsoft Download Center Hope this gets sorted for you soon 1
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