Minibus Lite

[nikaso]

Has anyone experience of the minibus 'lite' you can buy? Basically the selling point is you can drive it on a B licence rather than having to do the D1 making it attractive to schools as any of their staff passing a car test 1997 onwards don't have the grandfather rights which include D1.

 

They cost more to lease than normal minibuses and I have seen criticisms of them being unsuitable for full loads of larger students as they are put overweight.

 

I think for minibuses weighing in excess of 3500kg GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) you require a D1 but on one of the minibus lite suppliers pages here they list the GVW of the minibus lite as over 4000kg while demonstrating their greater payload but surely once you reach 3500 you are then in breach of your licence conditions if using a B licence?

 

Is this the company being misleading and instead of you getting 1460KG payload you only actually get 955KG with a B licence or am I not understanding this??

 

If it is 955KG then 16 Year 11 rugby players will put it well over (assuming average weight of 70kg)?

[Steve21]

Isn't it kind of a mute point especially for schools with the exemption?

 

https://www.gov.uk/driving-a-minibus

 

If the minibus is not for ‘hire or reward’

 

You may be able to drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats using your current car driving licence as long as it’s not for ‘hire or reward’ - there’s no payment from or on behalf of the passengers.

Conditions you must meet

 

You can drive a minibus within the UK as long as the following conditions apply:

 

you’re 21 or older

the minibus is used for social purposes by a non-commercial body

you’ve had your driving licence for at least 2 years

you meet the ‘Group 2’ medical standards if you’re over 70 - check with your GP if you’re not sure you meet the standards

you’re driving on a voluntary basis and the minibus is used for social purposes by a non-commercial body

the maximum weight of the minibus is not more than 3.5 tonnes - or 4.25 tonnes including specialist equipment for disabled passengers, eg a wheelchair ramp

you’re not towing a trailer

 

As it's non-profit organisation and you're not earning for it you don't need the license from my understanding

 

Steve

[Steve21]

Or did you mean in terms of the 3.5 limit with passengers and I'm just being a spas? :s

 

Steve

[Boredguy]

Or did you mean in terms of the 3.5 limit with passengers and I'm just being a spas? :s

 

Steve

Weight Limit.

 

There are only a hand full of our staff who can drive our 17 Seater Transit's due to their age, but you can get a D1 classification for around £1000 last time we looked into it.

[nikaso]

Or did you mean in terms of the 3.5 limit with passengers and I'm just being a spas? :s

 

Steve

 

Those requirements are for the B licence minibuses (usually 14 seats or under) as the weight still has to be under 3500, these Minibus Lites are full 16 seat (17 including driver) but you can drive them on a B licence. Unfortunately 14 seats isn't much use if you need to transport a rugby team!

[CAM]

Schools don't count as social, they are still considered commercial for a lot of stuff. That clause is there for domestic use, I had a former colleague who shuttled her kids around in a full sized minibus and didn't need a special licence for it.

[Steve21]

That's only for people without the permit though. Schools have section 19 permits which allows it.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/section-19-and-22-permits-not-for-profit-passenger-transport/section-19-and-22-permits-not-for-profit-passenger-transport#section-19-permits

 

The wheelchair one is fine as that's 4.25 tons, the other ones need permit 19 within the school, but still no license individually

 

Steve

[Boredguy]

We spent a long time looking into this, and the info from Wilts LA legal team was even though we get a Section 19, we need D1 licence holders due to having 17 seaters.

 

Now if we had a 15 Seater bus it would be fine as that's covered under the B that most drivers have, but doesn't get a whole school team in =/

[Steve21]

Note the 17 figure is including driver though, so it's a 16 seater in that link. "the vehicle can carry between 9 and 16 passengers"

 

Steve

[nikaso]

I've just spoken to one of the companies supplying the Lite versions and they reassured me that there are no problems going overweight with the rugby team onboard, of course they would say that but I think one of the 'tricks' they use is to give the buses some basic accessibility capability and that boosts the 3500kg limit to 4250kg.

[rich_tech]

tbh this area has never made clear sense, my reading of the second bit of that website means you would be ok to drive it if you charged pupils and it was for educational use regarding the permit.

 

I think this whole bit was a combined government/DSA ripoff anyway for the motorist, as you can essentially drive a same sized vehicle as a minibus without a further test, provided it doesn't have seats in it or weigh too much.

[nikaso]

tbh this area has never made clear sense, my reading of the second bit of that website means you would be ok to drive it if you charged pupils and it was for educational use regarding the permit.

 

I think this whole bit was a combined government/DSA ripoff anyway for the motorist, as you can essentially drive a same sized vehicle as a minibus without a further test, provided it doesn't have seats in it or weigh too much.

 

I agree, and the £1000 cost for a D1 is outrageous, driving a 16 seat minibus that is smaller than a Luton box van (for which no additional licence is required) shouldn't cost a £1000 and don't get me started on the unfairness of Grandfather rights. Passed your test 31st December 1996 want to drive a 7.5 tonne lorry? Knock yourself out. Pass your test the next day? Sorry you are a liability and have to complete lots of very expensive licences to be safe!

[sted]

I agree, and the £1000 cost for a D1 is outrageous, driving a 16 seat minibus that is smaller than a Luton box van (for which no additional licence is required) shouldn't cost a £1000 and don't get me started on the unfairness of Grandfather rights. Passed your test 31st December 1996 want to drive a 7.5 tonne lorry? Knock yourself out. Pass your test the next day? Sorry you are a liability and have to complete lots of very expensive licences to be safe!

 

i thought if you passed after 97 you did need an extra test for a luton van one of the reasons in the summer hols as my driving license is old i get tasked now and again with driving big vans

[nikaso]

i thought if you passed after 97 you did need an extra test for a luton van one of the reasons in the summer hols as my driving license is old i get tasked now and again with driving big vans

 

Most Luton vans I have seen are specifically for the 3.5 tonne limit market. You can get larger box vans that are 7.5 tonne but they aren't usually referred to as Luton vans.

[Boredguy]

Most Luton vans I have seen are specifically for the 3.5 tonne limit market. You can get larger box vans that are 7.5 tonne but they aren't usually referred to as Luton vans.

They also normally have a max payload capacity of 800KG, where as a normal long wheelbase panel van (such as the new Transit) is upto 1600KG, and both are B covered.

 

But Minibuses are a minefield for licencing in this day and age. At least I get a several trips out each year taking ours for their 13 week check to fulfil our Section 19 requirement from the local LA as one of the few that has the D1 licence and willing to drive it.

[rad]

I drive the school Peugeot 17 seater minibus, we have to do the MiDas test which lasts 4 years. We cant add a roof rack or obviously a towbar as that makes it out of our license conditions.

 

As for weight, it isnt generally an issue for us, I have only ever had one full bus in the time I have driven it for subject areas, PE and DofE.

[nikaso]

Just got some quotes back for comparison, on a 5 year 10k mile lease the Lite version is about £100 a month more expensive. To offset that we can send 2 staff at a time for training for their D1 at £1000 for the pair so we could still save a significant amount over the term even having to train a handful of staff. Might be useful info for someone.

[rad]

For info, one of our buses has done 2,000 miles a year, the other 4,000

it really depends on the distance you need to go but 10,000 a year is high.

 

As for drivers, we have all the PE staff plus a few others trained, so unless these 2 drivers are solely Minibus drivers then the lite option is better, you are essentially paying for a qualification for them.