IrritableTech Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) is the first major department to move to Google Apps, part of an apparent loosening of Microsoft's stranglehold on the government's software services. The department will join the Cabinet Office and Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) in deploying the fluffy white stuff. HMRC ditches Microsoft for Google, sends data offshore • The Register Interesting given the tax history of Google, but a clear indicator that even large government departments are now more comfortable with exporting their data to the company.
localzuk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Interesting! That represents quite a big shift in thinking for a major govt dept! Hope it goes well for them.
rickjames Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I know someone who works for HMRC but is moving to the Department of Justice; bugbears in the time he's been there include sitting on XP forever and IE6 only browser being available. Yeah.
psydii Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Hmm. Can Google's Spreadsheet really cut the mustard against Excel? What about the plethora of quick an dirty Access Databases spun up by enterprising junior bods to just get the 'job done' that are now completely central to teams processes even though the junior bod moved on 5-15 years ago? While not on the scale of some of the mainframe stuff, an awful lot of data and workflows will be locked into these legacy apps and will be a pain/impossible to shift. There is a reason there are people still using ancient versions of Office.
mjk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Hmm. Can Google's Spreadsheet really cut the mustard against Excel? What about the plethora of quick an dirty Access Databases spun up by enterprising junior bods to just get the 'job done' that are now completely central to teams processes even though the junior bod moved on 5-15 years ago? Take a look at Googles' API's. There is a lot that can be done, including knocking up SQL databases. We still have some dyed in the wool excel users, it's not that Google spreadsheets can't do what they want, rather they just don't like any change.
zag Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I remember the days on this site when people wouldn't even touch the cloud because "the servers were not in the UK". Looks a bit silly now
localzuk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I remember the days on this site when people wouldn't even touch the cloud because "the servers were not in the UK". Looks a bit silly now Not really! As has been pointed out elsewhere, Google recently changed its policies regarding where data is homed. Their various policies have gone through numerous updates and changes also. So, what was said only a month ago could very well be out of date now. Also, as has been mentioned many times, every organisation has to perform its own risk assessment. This will result in different decisions for each and every one of them. One thing to note, this system is rated for use with OFFICIAL level documents. It doesn't include SECRET or above. So, it isn't a wholesale off-shoring of data. Also, I think most people were anxious about data leaving the EU rather than the UK specifically. Hmm. Can Google's Spreadsheet really cut the mustard against Excel? What about the plethora of quick an dirty Access Databases spun up by enterprising junior bods to just get the 'job done' that are now completely central to teams processes even though the junior bod moved on 5-15 years ago? While not on the scale of some of the mainframe stuff, an awful lot of data and workflows will be locked into these legacy apps and will be a pain/impossible to shift. There is a reason there are people still using ancient versions of Office. Takes minutes to create a database using Google Apps, but with the added flexibility that web technologies and SQL can provide. So, transferring those setups over is not going to be a huge problem I'd imagine. Edited June 8, 2015 by localzuk
mjk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Not really! As has been pointed out elsewhere, Google recently changed its policies regarding where data is homed. No, it changed its policies where certain virtual machine services are stored, not Google apps. The reason there was so much controversy was because there was a lot of FUD spread about by suppliers and Google haters (perhaps at the behest of Microsoft, who knows) who are at risk of loosing big contracts. They used the pretence of the "EU legislation" to spread this rubbish when in fact they totally disregarded the safe harbour agreement which was specifically designed to comply with Directive 95/46/EC. 1
localzuk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) No, it changed its policies where certain virtual machine services are stored, not Google apps. The reason there was so much controversy was because there was a lot of FUD spread about by suppliers and Google haters (perhaps at the behest of Microsoft, who knows) who are at risk of loosing big contracts. They used the pretence of the "EU legislation" to spread this rubbish when in fact they totally disregarded the safe harbour agreement which was specifically designed to comply with Directive 95/46/EC. What nonsense. The Safe Harbor agreement is currently being investigated by the EU, to determine if it is in fact good enough. There is uncertainty, and there is doubt, but rightly so. We're talking about protecting very sensitive information, and decisions should not be made lightly!! It isn't a pretence, it is organisations doing what they legally are required to do - Safe Harbor or not - to ensure the data they process is safe. I am not a Google hater, just like I'm not a Microsoft hater. I use both their technologies extensively personally. When it comes to making determinations for my employer though, personal opinions are set aside! Edited June 8, 2015 by localzuk 1
mjk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 It isn't a pretence, it is organisations doing what they legally are required to do - Safe Harbor or not - to ensure the data they process is safe. Haha. Many local authorities, schools and government agencies did the same exercise and came to a very different conclusion than you. Do I have more confidence in HMRC's, DFE, cabinet office risk assessment or some tech in a school. Hmm, let me think about that one.
localzuk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Haha. Many local authorities, schools and government agencies did the same exercise and came to a very different conclusion than you. Do I have more confidence in HMRC's, DFE, cabinet office risk assessment or some tech in a school. Hmm, let me think about that one. Many local authorities came to a different conclusion than you also. For example, Bristol City Council were very anti-Google the last time I checked, when I worked in Bristol at a school which used Google Apps. Once again, stop assuming every organisation is the same. It is truly nonsensical and makes you seem like a zealot. Either that or someone from Google's marketing dept.
mjk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I thought you did your risk assessment ? or did I get the wrong end of the stick about that?
localzuk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I thought you did your risk assessment ? or did I get the wrong end of the stick about that? The last time we were looking at changing our systems here, we performed a risk assessment. The outcome of that was that we were not happy with Google Apps at that time due to the investigation being performed by the EU into the Safe Harbor agreement, and due to a loss of control of our own data. We've not looked at it specifically for our needs since then, beyond keeping an eye on their technologies (eg. my recent looking at them as a potential place to upload backup data to). If we look at it again then we'll do a new risk assessment, based on the facts available at that time. The risk assessments are performed by a number of people, based on their individual areas of expertise. In Bristol, I arrived in the school after it had been implemented.
zag Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) These arguments will look ridiculous in years to come when everything is in the cloud, and the physical location is of no bother to anyone. I didn't get involved in the 40 page discussion of the safe harbour agreement originally, when someone told me I couldn't use live@edu. and I wont now As someone said, every organization is different. Personally I think the cloud is the best thing to happen in IT, since virtulization! Edited June 8, 2015 by zag
localzuk Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 They might well look ridiculous in the future, but the future isn't now is it? I do like the cloud you know, I am developing my own software on Azure now, as it is just so quick and easy to get up and running. Its ideal for any business wanting to design a system that can scale massively with no capital costs, and web based stuff makes it so easy for customers to consume too.
GrumbleDook Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 And to resurrect an old thread ... Facebook data transfers threatened by Safe Harbour ruling - BBC News This will run for some time but the position is about transfer of data outside of the EEA.
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