Server Spec Suggestions ... SAN or JBOD

[burgemaster]

Hi all,

Just forward planning and been looking at a two node failover cluster setup with a SAN. This would be to replace our nd3000 and its Dell 1950 server, three 2950's and an R610. They are currently setup as virtual hosts and the storage all on hosts.

 

I know this is an open ended question... But could anyone please recommend the kind of spec that each server would need to be? We're a secondary school 900 users, 550 devices. Currently have 14 virtual servers spread across the hosts. Was hoping that maybe the R610 could be possibly updated and an additional matching R610 be bought as a refurb. As you guessed we have no money!!!

 

We currently have no SAN, could a JBOD solution mean we may not need to buy a SAN???

Thanks in advance!!!

Edited November 22, 2014 by ZeroHour

[ZeroHour]

What VM software are you using?

Do you need full HA or just simple migration from one node to the other if the hardware failed?

[burgemaster]

What VM software are you using?

Do you need full HA or just simple migration from one node to the other if the hardware failed?

 

Sorry can't believe I didn't state that. We're server 2012 with hyper-v. Managed with MSVMM.

If there was host failure I was hoping for full Redundancy which I was hoping would be a couple of seconds downtime??

But I am open to suggestions!!

[ascott2]

Given constraints on budget, and the fact you are on 2012, you could look into hyper-v replica which is built into the OS as an option? This would depend on how good the networking is between the servers if there is heavy disk IO.

[burgemaster]

Given constraints on budget, and the fact you are on 2012, you could look into hyper-v replica which is built into the OS as an option? This would depend on how good the networking is between the servers if there is heavy disk IO.

Thanks Scott, will look into this, is this regarding the possibility on negating the need for a SAN? We are running on 8 year old hardware so was hoping for real life hardware spec recommendations.

[ZeroHour]

To follow up, the 550 devices, what split of pc's to tablets do you have? Its just to consider first period login load.

[burgemaster]

To follow up, the 550 devices, what split of pc's to tablets do you have? Its just to consider first period login load.

 

Thanks for looking at this. Maybe 475ish desktop domain PCs, 40-50 domain laptops, 15-20 non-domain laptops/Pcs, 300+ Student and staff BYOD devices.

[localzuk]

Have you looked at the shared JBOD capability of Windows Server 2012? Basically, you can get some models of JBOD which allow 2 separate servers to connect to a single JBOD, and then via Storage Spaces and Failover Clustering, 2 servers can share it.

 

This article covers it - Storage Spaces, JBODs, and Failover Clustering – A Recipe for Cost-Effective, Highly Available Storage - Windows Storage Server - Site Home - TechNet Blogs

Edited November 22, 2014 by localzuk

[burgemaster]

Have you looked at the shared JBOD capability of Windows Server 2012? Basically, you can get some models of JBOD which allow 2 separate servers to connect to a single JBOD, and then via Storage Spaces and Failover Clustering, 2 servers can share it.

 

This article covers it - Storage Spaces, JBODs, and Failover Clustering – A Recipe for Cost-Effective, Highly Available Storage - Windows Storage Server - Site Home - TechNet Blogs

 

Hi LocalZuk, thanks for the reply.

I looked into storage spaces, but I came to the conclusion that a JBOD would cost a lot more than a SAN? There doesn't seem to be much variety in the market either?

[localzuk]

Doubt it. A Supermicro 847E26-RJBOD1 is £1455. Add disks and the SAS controllers you'll connect to it via and that's it? Unless you can get a SAN for super-cheap?

[burgemaster]

Doubt it. A Supermicro 847E26-RJBOD1 is £1455. Add disks and the SAS controllers you'll connect to it via and that's it? Unless you can get a SAN for super-cheap?

I did see the supermicro, It was far cheaper for just the chassis than all other I saw, I thought it may be a cheap model, does a JBOD performance very on the quality of product you buy or is a JBOD and JBOD all with the same performance? No access to a cheap SAN hehe, ive never really had to price one up as they have been out of our price range. But yes your right it does seem cheaper!! thankyou

 

Is this shopping list complete?

1x Supermicro 847E26-RJBOD1

XXTB of Hard drives

2x Unknown spec`ed host Servers (Fingers crossed the R610 might be up for the job)

2x SAS controllers for above hosts

1x Dedicated switch (already have)

Server 2012 licences (already have)

[localzuk]

The performance of a JBOD depends on the controller you use to connect to them. A JBOD is quite literally, just a bunch of disks.

 

Yeah. That looks right. The server wouldn't even need to be anything special to be honest. Just enough to handle the data usage. An R610 would be plenty adequate.

 

EDIT: The main difference/advantage of this way is the ability to have tiered storage within a single device. Eg. You could have SSDs, SAS drives and SATA drives all in a single enclosure. Which is ideal for the scale at which most schools operate. I've yet to find a SAN which allows for this without requiring a tray of each type of disks when speccing things up.

Edited November 22, 2014 by localzuk

[burgemaster]

The performance of a JBOD depends on the controller you use to connect to them. A JBOD is quite literally, just a bunch of disks.

 

Yeah. That looks right. The server wouldn't even need to be anything special to be honest. Just enough to handle the data usage. An R610 would be plenty adequate.

 

Thankyou. So if I have a couple of hosts. Wouldn't each host need the performance to host every VM that we Currently have spaced over 4 hosts?? Or do they have half each??

[localzuk]

Thankyou. So if I have a couple of hosts. Wouldn't each host need the performance to host every VM that we Currently have spaced over 4 hosts?? Or do they have half each??

 

That really depends how you scale everything. What I'd say is continue to separate out the storage from Hyper-V. So, you have a couple of R610's connected to the JBOD, with shares set up with SMB3.0, and then your Hyper-V hosts connecting to those Hyper-V shares. That way, you keep the 2 systems separate and can consider them individually.

 

Each host would need to be able to handle the entire disk I/O of the Hyper-V hosts, yeah, but that isn't so difficult and is really down to your SAS controllers. Network I/O is, in my experience, pretty minimal. We have 26 hosts running via SMB3.0 and we hardly ever even reach 1GBps.

 

Note: You should check the super-micro chassis comes with power supplies etc... by default.

Edited November 22, 2014 by localzuk

[burgemaster]

Thanks, so if R610 number 1 motherboard goes south, is there any failover?

[localzuk]

Yeah, the other one you have set up would still be live, and via your scale out file system setup, the hyper-v hosts wouldn't notice. Ie. They'd act like a cluster. The hyper-v servers would connect to the cluster, whatever the number of servers in it.

 

At least, that's what Microsoft say.

Edited November 22, 2014 by localzuk

[burgemaster]

Sounds like a plan. Just need around 3-4k now and some spare time and were sorted!! Thanks for the advise.

I would really like some confirmation of the spec required of the hosts. I don't want them to be the weak link and waste all this money. Not sure where I can get this information apart from here. Thanks again.

[localzuk]

Sounds like a plan. Just need around 3-4k now and some spare time and were sorted!! Thanks for the advise.

I would really like some confirmation of the spec required of the hosts. I don't want them to be the weak link and waste all this money. Thanks again.

 

I think your best bet might be to speak to a specialist in this stuff.

[burgemaster]

Yeah, I want to get it right, but also want to keep costs to a minimum and don't want to waste anyone's time. E.g. specialist putting together a quote/time while I'm knowing I may put together a reconditioned host and source my own hardware!

[localzuk]

Yeah, I want to get it right, but also want to keep costs to a minimum and don't want to waste anyone's time. E.g. specialist putting together a quote/time while I'm knowing I may put together a reconditioned host and source my own hardware!

 

Indeed. It might be worth speaking to someone like Millgate or Softcat as they should be able to run such a setup via a Microsoft bod.

[burgemaster]

Has anyone got a 2 host setup? With a San and JBOD ?

Is so could they let me know what kind of spec your running?

[mattianuk]

Send me an email tomorrow to send our 2 failover specs to you, but also, Novatech, millgate, softcat all helpful in doing specs and info, even for just advice, because you are more likely to use them in future, Novatech did both of ours, but useful advice from all three. And I basically said, I want to achieve this, what do I need to do.

 

It was useful having the three to compare.

[burgemaster]

Cheers Matt