Quackers Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 After reading this today Windows hits the skids, Mac OS X on the rise Im not surprised all my close friends and my self have all dumped Windows for Mac OS for personal machines in the last 2 years. I'm seeing more and more people using Mac than ever before. Will be interesting to see if it gets to 10% and if it does how quickly. What do others make of it?
Michael Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 To be honest, I don't think Apple is too much to worry about from a desktop/notebook point of view. If you look at it from a Smartphone point of view, Android is 1st with Apple 2nd and Microsoft is no where to be seen. With the rise in popularity of portable devices, Microsoft really need to catch up.
Netsplit Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Apple will continue to grow on the domestic and mobile market. However, they never will be a big player in the world of the workplace. That is except for a few "creative" uses. Like it or not, nothing integrates like Microsoft, nothing is as controllable as Microsoft. Kids need MS PC experience not niche kit experience no matter how good it might be. The business world calls the tune and future employees must dance to it. That said, I wrote this on a Linux PC.
seawolf Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Like it or not, nothing integrates like Microsoft, nothing is as controllable as Microsoft. Well, nothing integrates with Microsoft like Microsoft anyway that's for sure. Mac OS is actually very configurable and controllable with the right tools though (Casper Suite, Absolute Manage, Profile Manager + ARD, etc) in the hands of a tech as knowledgeable about Macs as the average Windows tech is about Windows and SCCM, GPP, etc.. In the hands of an inexperienced tech or without the right systems, of course it won't be. Kids need MS PC experience not niche kit experience no matter how good it might be. The business world calls the tune and future employees must dance to it. I don't think this is going to be the reality for the average 13 year old student of 2014. Perhaps their older siblings, but in 5 years time BYOD is likely to have a strong presence in many businesses and may be the expectation in most SMBs. BYOD has already made significant in-roads into business and education and this trend is very likely to continue as employees insist on using tools they are familiar and productive with, and businesses look to reduce costs and provide a work environment geared for Gen Y and beyond. The real reality is that corporate IT had better be prepared to deal with the BYOD movement and have systems that can cope with a myriad of user devices be they Windows, Mac, Linux. Chromebooks, etc.. Harder for IT? No doubt. Will the CEO care - hardly. The CEO will see it as a competitive advantage for recruiting, cost savings, and productivity. That said, I wrote this on a Linux PC. My point exactly. 1
Netsplit Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 BYOD has already made significant in-roads into business and education It only extends within sales and management. They love shiny things. My last position was with the forth largest outsourcer in Europe and neither they, the commercial clients or the gov. departments they served used BYOD to any noticeable level. It wasn't growing either. Also there wasn't a single owned Apple asset in the CMDB that I ever came across, not one. Try writing a spreadsheet or presentation on a phablet. Say the word Apple in a tier one data centre and you'll be looking for a new job. It's not prejudice, the practicalities and costs mean there is no case to make. VMware is developing the hypervisor to take over the redundant O/S role completely. There won't be the pointless extra layer in every VM soon. Now then, on the desktop, the trend is actually to make a personal computer utterly obsolete. The future is everything to be Cloud and SaaS. When this work is complete the world will have gone full circle and back to dumb terminals. Web terminals this time rather than shell ones. You'll still need a big screen and keyboard for business though. In short, the future is no more PC's and no more O/S full stop.
seawolf Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Say the word Apple in a tier one data centre and you'll be looking for a new job. It's not prejudice, the practicalities and costs mean there is no case to make. That's interesting since if you are a Google employee you now have to make your case to have something OTHER than a Mac on your desk. Google does own a datacentre or two around the place and pretty much all of their thousands of employees use Macs. Google currently manages over 40,000 Macs. Looks like mentioning the word "Apple" at a tier 1 datacentre might just get you a job at Google... http://bgr.com/2013/11/28/mac-chromebook-google-employees/ VMware is developing the hypervisor to take over the redundant O/S role completely. There won't be the pointless extra layer in every VM soon. I'm not sure what this has to do with BYOD or the increase in non-windows OS on the desktop, but VMWare have also made the vSphere web UI in vSphere 5.5 fully Mac compatible and in order to access all of the features in vSphere 5.5 you have to use the web UI, as they aren't available in the Windows client. That's quite a change from the past. Now then, on the desktop, the trend is actually to make a personal computer utterly obsolete. The future is everything to be Cloud and SaaS. When this work is complete the world will have gone full circle and back to dumb terminals. Web terminals this time rather than shell ones. You'll still need a big screen and keyboard for business though. In short, the future is no more PC's and no more O/S full stop. Sure, the very large businesses will likely go that way, but the numerous SMEs of the western world employee far more workers in the economy than the large companies. SMEs are not going to go all Cloud and SaaS UNLESS widespread Gigabit internet becomes a reality. Again, easy for the large companies to achieve, (they can afford to have it built) not so the company that has 50 employees and can't afford 200k for the fibre build and a 10k/month Fibre bill. I just don't see the evidence for widespread use of thin client technology yet. Again, in verybig businesses and government it may, but not your average SME. Unless every SME gets swallowed whole by big business and all we have are a bunch of Buy-N-Large oligopolies or monopolies, that's not going to happen. These systems take big iron and networking in the backend as well as a level of expertise many SMEs don't have. I have worked with many of them in the past as my clients and can attest to that. Even many larger companies have IT expertise and practices that aren't anywhere near what you would expect.
Arthur Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 VMware have also made the vSphere web UI in vSphere 5.5 fully Mac compatible and in order to access all of the features in vSphere 5.5 you have to use the web UI, as they aren't available in the Windows client. That's quite a change from the past. VMware's decision to make a Flash-based web client was a bit stupid, don't you think? From what I have read, it's not well liked. Anyone actually happy with the vSphere web client? « Reddit Love vSphere? You're going to have to love Flash too « The Register vSphere Web client Reliability? « VMware Communities
seawolf Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 VMware's decision to make a Flash-based web client was a bit stupid, don't you think? From what I have read, it's not well liked. Anyone actually happy with the vSphere web client? « Reddit Love vSphere? You're going to have to love Flash too « The Register vSphere Web client Reliability? « VMware Communities It's a bit disappointing they used Flash, but at least it's been well-written and not slapped together like so many FLEX or Flash-based web apps.
mthomas08 Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 To be honest, I don't think Apple is too much to worry about from a desktop/notebook point of view. If you look at it from a Smartphone point of view, Android is 1st with Apple 2nd and Microsoft is no where to be seen. With the rise in popularity of portable devices, Microsoft really need to catch up. This is my thinking, plus as for desktop sales W7 works on older equipment unlike vista which asked for more power. Most users buy tablets because they want internet access. Plus there is the bull feedback some users are being told when they are clueless with IT. I have met several people who have been told they should buy mac because they are the best thing for internet access and last ten plus years. Misleading information is also part of the reason people are buying macs instead of buying something that does the job they want.
mattx Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Very good post. Well, nothing integrates with Microsoft like Microsoft anyway that's for sure. Mac OS is actually very configurable and controllable with the right tools though (Casper Suite, Absolute Manage, Profile Manager + ARD, etc) in the hands of a tech as knowledgeable about Macs as the average Windows tech is about Windows and SCCM, GPP, etc.. In the hands of an inexperienced tech or without the right systems, of course it won't be. I don't think this is going to be the reality for the average 13 year old student of 2014. Perhaps their older siblings, but in 5 years time BYOD is likely to have a strong presence in many businesses and may be the expectation in most SMBs. BYOD has already made significant in-roads into business and education and this trend is very likely to continue as employees insist on using tools they are familiar and productive with, and businesses look to reduce costs and provide a work environment geared for Gen Y and beyond. The real reality is that corporate IT had better be prepared to deal with the BYOD movement and have systems that can cope with a myriad of user devices be they Windows, Mac, Linux. Chromebooks, etc.. Harder for IT? No doubt. Will the CEO care - hardly. The CEO will see it as a competitive advantage for recruiting, cost savings, and productivity. My point exactly.
Netsplit Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 if you are a Google employee you now have to make your case to have something OTHER than a Mac on your desk. Google does own a datacentre or two around the place and pretty much all of their thousands of employees use Macs. Sure, the very large businesses will likely go that way, but the numerous SMEs of the western world employee far more workers in the economy than the large companies. SMEs are not going to go all Cloud I just don't see the evidence for widespread use of thin client technology yet. Hmm it seems you aren't clear on the difference between a datacentre and the desk or what my term "creative type" niche means. I'm clearly wasting my time. Actually big business defines the PC. SME's have no say and take what they're given. The PC market is in freefall and isn't going to stop. BYOD is used a web client just like PC's are now. Not going cloud? Again wrong, in the UK many organisations are already all cloud. I'm in talks with a typical independent school at the moment. They are Office 365 and Google Apps. No internal infrastructure except to deliver specialist didactic software. This is not unique I can assure you.
seawolf Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Hmm it seems you aren't clear on the difference between a datacentre and the desk or what my term "creative type" niche means. I'm clearly wasting my time. Yes, you are wasting your time if the argument was meant to be using Mac servers in a large datacentre. I think I've been pretty clear that you don't need a Mac on the backend to manage Macs and iPads. You can use Casper Suite, Absolute Manage, Meraki, SCCM with Parellels agent/plugin, etc. that can all run on Linux or Windows VMs. Actually big business defines the PC. SME's have no say and take what they're given. The consumer is doing a pretty good job of defining the "PC", not big business or we would have never seen the existence of Metro, Windows 8, or the Surface in the first place. The PC market is in freefall and isn't going to stop. BYOD is used a web client just like PC's are now. You seem to be agreeing with my point at least in a way. BYOD isn't just a web client or all about the cloud though. Not going cloud? Again wrong, in the UK many organisations are already all cloud. I'm in talks with a typical independent school at the moment. They are Office 365 and Google Apps. No internal infrastructure except to deliver specialist didactic software. This is not unique I can assure you. Great, I hope that goes well for them. I wonder how well they've thought that out though considering all contingencies. Schools are using hosted email? Yes, of course this is where it makes sense along with hosting of publicly accessible web severs off-site. We do this too. Will their be a mass migration for businesses and schools to host their core infrastructure off-site (AD, File Servers, databases, and all backups) all in the cloud? No, not in THIS decade anyway. Edited March 17, 2014 by seawolf
tmcd35 Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 All this really says is that the consumer market is becoming more web based and platform agnostic - something I think we already knew. It's unsuprising that in such an environment Mac's would do a little better than they had been since there isn't the paltform lock-ins that caused those buyers to purchase Windows in the past. The more everything becomes cloud and web based the more people will run all sorts of crazy alternate OS's on any number of disperate devices because quiet frankly all that's really needed is a web browser.
abillybob Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) That's interesting since if you are a Google employee you now have to make your case to have something OTHER than a Mac on your desk. Google does own a datacentre or two around the place and pretty much all of their thousands of employees use Macs. Google currently manages over 40,000 Macs. Looks like mentioning the word "Apple" at a tier 1 datacentre might just get you a job at Google... Mac vs Chromebook: Google employees instructed to use OS X computers | BGR It's something to remember though that even though Google are one of Apple's biggest customers they are quite frankly getting sick of them. Google have had to create brand new programmes from scratch to make the Apple kit work for them with no help from Apple at all, they complained and said Apple support never support us! They stated that they use Apple Mac's as the hardware makes their company look more professional and is a perk to a Google employee to have a new Mac. This was a huge news story at one point have you forgotten about all the problems Google have had with Apple? Here's a link: How Google manages over 40,000 Macs…without much help from Apple | 9to5Mac Edited March 17, 2014 by abillybob
Quackers Posted March 17, 2014 Author Posted March 17, 2014 They stated that they use Apple Mac's as the hardware makes their company look more professional and is a perk to a Google employee to have a new Mac. This was a huge news story at one point have you forgotten about all the problems Google have had with Apple? Here's a link: How Google manages over 40,000 Macs…without much help from Apple | 9to5Mac They run Macs so they can run Mac OS X because they found Windows to be not secure enough after they had a breach. Not because it makes them look more professional. We use Googles Munki for pushing software to Macs its a great light weight tool. Its only in the last 10 years that Microsofts own tools have been up to scratch in managing Windows Clients properly. Thats why RM Connect was popular with schools in the 90's because MS's own tools were absolute junk. Even Windows 2000 did not have a fraction of the Group Policies available today.
CAM Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 But not all businesses have the same bottomless money pit that Google have! Also Mac still has to break the gaming market before it gets serious market share on the desktop, their ports are still after thoughts. New title on Windows, Mac port comes later even after compatibility has been cobbled together (if at all possible) on Linux via WINE. The only reason I stay with Windows is gaming. That looks unlikely to change significantly for a good few years.
abillybob Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 They run Macs so they can run Mac OS X because they found Windows to be not secure enough after they had a breach. Not because it makes them look more professional. We use Googles Munki for pushing software to Macs its a great light weight tool. Its only in the last 10 years that Microsofts own tools have been up to scratch in managing Windows Clients properly. Thats why RM Connect was popular with schools in the 90's because MS's own tools were absolute junk. Even Windows 2000 did not have a fraction of the Group Policies available today. True but Windows kept developing tools and improving them for it's enterprise users, where as Apple after the iPhone was released haven't really made and new updates since 2007 regarding their management tools, this is why Google can't use them as Apple no longer care about the enterprise market and are just focusing on the Mobile market. If you look at the PowerPoint shown on the same page you will see Apple hasn't moved in development of enterprise management since 2007! Microsoft have always tryed to improve their management systems for enterprise users and still to this day continue to. It would worry me if my school bought into everything Apple and then a few years down the line I can't manage the kit we have because Apple have stopped supporting enterprise management, regarding the security issue due to the fact that Windows still dominates the whole Workstation world of course there is going to be a lot more security threats, 'm sure if it was the other way round and Mac where on top of the chart you have listed it would be Mac with the security threats. Point being whoever whether it be Mac or Windows is in the lead regarding Workstation use it will always have more security issues. So for example if everyone went out tomorrow and bought Mac and that OS dominated you would see Google slowly merging back to Windows as that would then be the most secure with hackers putting all their focus onto the major OS which is Windows.
seawolf Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) It's something to remember though that even though Google are one of Apple's biggest customers they are quite frankly getting sick of them. Google have had to create brand new programmes from scratch to make the Apple kit work for them with no help from Apple at all, they complained and said Apple support never support us! It pays to do your research... Google built their own enterprise management system for the Macs called Simian - https://code.google.com/p/simian/ that was based on the open source Munki system. Simian is Munki on steroids built on top of Google Apps engine. They didn't build it from scratch (that would be an insult to the developers who've worked on Munki). Why did Google do that when there were numerous available 3rd-party enterprise management tools available for the Mac (Casper Suite, Absolute Manage, SCCM w/plugins, Munki, Altiris, FileWave, Puppet, etc.). Just why would Google spend all of that effort on Simian? Was it because "Apple never supports us"? No, it was because one of the biggest software development companies in the world didn't want to pay huge sums of money for software licensing for a system it was capable of building itself and fully controlling and customising to their whim. Apple doesn't provide Enterprise-level management tools (at this scale) and doesn't pretend to do so. They let other companies do this and make a good living doing it. Apple killing off their server and storage products a few years ago might have been a pretty good clue on this one. They stated that they use Apple Mac's as the hardware makes their company look more professional and is a perk to a Google employee to have a new Mac. This was a huge news story at one point have you forgotten about all the problems Google have had with Apple? Actually, Google decided to move from Windows to a Linux backend and Mac on the desktop AFTER the 2009 China hack, which apparently targeted Windows vulnerabilities. But, keep on believing that Google just has the "shiny, shiny syndrome" if you are so inclined. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/01/google_snubs_windows_report/ Edited March 17, 2014 by seawolf
seawolf Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 p.s. Just for another interesting trivia about a couple of the open source tools. Munki (what Symbian is based on) was developed by Disney Animation. The same Disney that Steve Jobs sold Pixar to for tons of money and a company he sat on the board of for years. http://www.disneyanimation.com/technology/opensource.html Disney Animation also developed Reposardo, which is an open source version of Apple's Software Update Server.
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