Leasing - Laptops

[mrbios]

Anyone here lease laptops?

 

I'm looking for success stories, failures, rough costs (including specs) replacement time tables etc.

 

Any information you can give me on this would be brilliant. I'm getting a bit annoyed with the replacement costs of laptops and the fact the majority of our staff are using laptops which are just falling apart and we can't afford to replace them, if we spread the costs over time with leasing options that could be a major plus for us (if the costs are effective).

[MikeGilbert]

Talk to the LA about approved lease providers. You can only take out an Operating Lease, not a Finance Lease. Make sure your insurance covers the costs of any that get damaged (because if you lease X devices, you need to have X devices at the end of the term), and that you get a warranty that covers full break/fix for the duration. Rental costs are currently IRO £335 per £1k per annum, although this can vary in respect of the Residual Value on the devices. The last bit means "Don't buy cheap"

[mrbios]

Thanks Mike,

 

Alot to think about, safe to say it wouldn't be a suitable approach for student laptops but hopefully it could be viable for our staff ones which is the main area I'm focusing on here. Will need to have a chat with the business manager i think.

[VeryPC_Colin_M]

Agree with @MikeGilbert in that you should attempt to get the most for your money. The rate sounds fair too so you need to check out one off admin fee, cost per thousand, duration, payback periods, warranty including Accidental damage and theft, and cost at end of lease to return the kit. I manage @VeryPC leasing for our Gateshead Contract and it's pretty simple, and provides immediate access to learning and teaching technology paid back over time; we partner with Syscap. You never own anything, but you're always responsible for it, which is why you should 100% take out the highest level of cover.

[mrbios]

One thing we're very used to at the moment is buying the cheapest of the cheap, seeing as that's a habit that we'd be looking to break with leased laptops, and based on the fact you get a return value for them at the end i assume there's a "sweet spot" in pricing terms? I again assume this sweet spot can vary based on when a laptop is purchased in a technical cycle? (IE purchasing Intel haswell based ones right before intels next wave of chips come out can mean losing their value quicker than if you signed off on them at the beginning of a products technical cycle?)

 

I probably haven't explained my thinking very well here but when you factor in potential damage and potential value decreasing factors there must be a point at which "dont buy cheap" ends and you get too expensive, and vice versa?

[VeryPC_Colin_M]

One thing we're very used to at the moment is buying the cheapest of the cheap, seeing as that's a habit that we'd be looking to break with leased laptops, and based on the fact you get a return value for them at the end i assume there's a "sweet spot" in pricing terms? I again assume this sweet spot can vary based on when a laptop is purchased in a technical cycle? (IE purchasing Intel haswell based ones right before intels next wave of chips come out can mean losing their value quicker than if you signed off on them at the beginning of a products technical cycle?)

 

I probably haven't explained my thinking very well here but when you factor in potential damage and potential value decreasing factors there must be a point at which "dont buy cheap" ends and you get too expensive, and vice versa?

 

Good shout. It would tend to be the lease company that bear the risk of techno advancements, price drops and the like though. At end of lease they charge a couple of quid in general to take the laptops back, so the School would have no liability in so long as the kit is still in good working order as agreed in the ts and cs. And then onto the next lease. There are different types of leasing arrangements but the Operating lease is the public sector choice. The benefits of having fixed payments for the contract duration are that the budget can go further and on occasion payments can be matched to the useful life of the equipment to protect against techno obsolescence. You can also choose to renew the lease, buy the kit, or simply return it.

[MikeGilbert]

There are different types of leasing arrangements but the Operating lease is the public sector choice.

Just to reinforce what I said: it's not a choice. If you take out a Finance Lease, which is the alternative to an Operating Lease, you are borrowing money. You are not allowed to do this as a publicly funded body.

At the end of the lease term, the units leased have a Residual Value which is calculated at the start of the lease by the leasing company and used to determine the actual payments.

I wouldn't worry about leasing any hardware, to be honest, whether for staff or student use. It just works.

[plexer]

Just to reinforce what I said: it's not a choice. If you take out a Finance Lease, which is the alternative to an Operating Lease, you are borrowing money. You are not allowed to do this as a publicly funded body.

At the end of the lease term, the units leased have a Residual Value which is calculated at the start of the lease by the leasing company and used to determine the actual payments.

I wouldn't worry about leasing any hardware, to be honest, whether for staff or student use. It just works.

 

Does it make any difference if you are an Academy or Free School etc...?

 

Ben

[VeryPC_Colin_M]

Does it make any difference if you are an Academy or Free School etc...?

 

Ben

 

Yes, all the difference in the world mate. You get a greater choice of leasing options, outside of an operating lease.

[MikeGilbert]

Yes, all the difference in the world mate. You get a greater choice of leasing options, outside of an operating lease.

It depends on your source of funding:

http://www.investec.co.uk/products-and-services/finance-and-lending/asset-finance-and-leasing/Equipment-Finance/education-leasing.html

[VeryPC_Colin_M]

It depends on your source of funding:

http://www.investec.co.uk/products-and-services/finance-and-lending/asset-finance-and-leasing/Equipment-Finance/education-leasing.html

 

Since @VeryPC are a sponsor @mrbios I feel comfortable providing this link to Syscap too who we use alongside Lombard for corporates - worth mentioning that you have the option to plan for upgrades and replace rapidly aging kit already under lease with new replacement up to date hardware without affecting the lease; Products and solutions Worth checking it out @plexer - @VeryPC assisted in the Green financing option.

[mrbios]

Thanks Colin, the more information i have the better, i'll be taking this idea to our business manager on monday to see what she thinks.

 

The main reason for wanting to go down this route really is that there's a desire from SMT to encrypt data on staff laptops. Of which means the requirement of TPM chips, we're used to paying outright for £250-330 laptops, ones with TPM chips are more like £500 which we cringe at spending on an indvidual laptop Not to mention of our around 100 staff only about 70-80 have laptops, and 60-70 of those are now in dire need of replacement.

[MikeGilbert]

encryption. Another password for teachers to forget.

[plexer]

It depends on your source of funding:

http://www.investec.co.uk/products-and-services/finance-and-lending/asset-finance-and-leasing/Equipment-Finance/education-leasing.html

 

Ok but's it's not quite as clear cut as your earlier statement of there is only one option period!!!!!

 

Ben

[difinity]

You can encrypt Windows laptops using bitlocker without a TPM. They use a small usb stick as the key.

 

Bitlocker without TPM: - War Room - notes from the field - Site Home - TechNet Blogs

[mrbios]

encryption. Another password for teachers to forget.

 

You can encrypt Windows laptops using bitlocker without a TPM. They use a small usb stick as the key.

 

Bitlocker without TPM: - War Room - notes from the field - Site Home - TechNet Blogs

 

The only thing i can say there is I agree with Mike that the additional password is going to be a pain on it's own...but a usb pen would go from a to a full blown

[difinity]

@mrbios using Bitlocker and the TPM there is no additional password for the user. A recovery password is stored in AD should the USB pen be lost/forgotten.

[MikeGilbert]

Ok but's it's not quite as clear cut as your earlier statement of there is only one option period!!!!!

Fair point, the Academies thing has thrown a bit of a spanner in the simplicity of things, as it has done for everything financial. But lets not go there...

[VeryPC_Colin_M]

Thanks Colin, the more information i have the better, i'll be taking this idea to our business manager on monday to see what she thinks.

 

The main reason for wanting to go down this route really is that there's a desire from SMT to encrypt data on staff laptops. Of which means the requirement of TPM chips, we're used to paying outright for £250-330 laptops, ones with TPM chips are more like £500 which we cringe at spending on an indvidual laptop Not to mention of our around 100 staff only about 70-80 have laptops, and 60-70 of those are now in dire need of replacement.

 

Ah, now I understand. You need to get up to date on the security side, but this means a mad dash replacement of a tonne of aging hardware. @VeryPC can sort you out with TPM laptops under budget don't you worry.

 

I think it would be a wise exercise to arrange a meet and greet with a couple of lessors to ensure you and your SLT know all of the ins and outs and they can assist you with the decision; often times you can pool other schools into the agreement and get better rates. I can send Syscap along no problem, and the options proposed will depend on the type of school you are; I'm convinced it will be an operating lease where you pay a monthly / quarterly / annual fee for a set period then hand the kit back.

 

We've found that the windows level encryption plus USB key and password is less than useless, but there are some paid for solutions like Computrace or even free open source disk encryption applications out there for the technically supreme; if @X-13 sees this I know he'll have ideas coming out of his every pony loving orifice for you because he's a genius. TPM is the industry standard though, so it must be the best right..?

[plexer]

Ah, now I understand. You need to get up to date on the security side, but this means a mad dash replacement of a tonne of aging hardware. @VeryPC can sort you out with TPM laptops under budget don't you worry.

 

 

Hehe

 

But yes they can and the thinbook pricing with tpm on board is not bad.

 

Ben

[mrbios]

Just mentioned laptop leasing in passing to my business manager... from the sounds of things she has major issues with the way our county council works when it comes to leases (We've just gone through our MFD leases which took ages) and she said an outright "no"...... Seems some persuading will be in order here, i think i need to gather some hard figures and create a proper plan so i can try and prove value+worth.

 

Thanks for all the advice fellow geeks.

@VeryPC_Colin_M I may well be in touch for further information on Monday once I've had a chat with my manager about this, he'll no doubt talk to the business manager again about it too hopefully.

[MikeGilbert]

Just mentioned laptop leasing in passing to my business manager... from the sounds of things she has major issues with the way our county council works when it comes to leases (We've just gone through our MFD leases which took ages)

More likely to be the way the lease is set up by the MFD company (Sooo much nicer than "Photocopier contract", isn't it...) than the process of leasing. There should be someone at County Hall who can give you chapter and verse on what hoops lease providers have to jump through. You can then put those as part of the quote criteria, which makes life easier for you, your SBM and the supplier. A lease should be as easy as 1) you order it 2) it's delivered 3) you sign it off as done. There can be hiccups at 2) and 3), obviously. Your supplier will be paid in full on their invoice to the lease company once you sign the kit off as delivered to spec and working, and not at all until that happens, so there's a good incentive on them to perform.

[mrbios]

Obviously the costs of such a thing are going to vary from contract to contract based on lots of variables but can anyone give me a really rough idea of what i can consider say 50 and 100 laptop to cost on a lease basis (be that the 3 year cost a 5 year cost or a yearly cost) I'm completely in the dark on figures at the moment

[VeryPC_Colin_M]

Here's a recent example of one I've done;

 

Fujitsu Lifebook A512; 15.6", i3, 4GB, 320GB, DVDRW, 8/7 Pro, 3 Yr NBD Onsite;

Outright purchase £349

3 payments annually

Leasing rate £325.67

Total rental costs over 3 years £340.98 (3*((number of annual payments / 1000)*leasing rate)

Equipment insurance charge £71.95

End of lease collection fee £8

Total 3 year cost £420.92 over 9 payments of £46.77

One off document fee charge £50

 

VAT if charged can be claimed back for you too, and you can add in carry cases, software, anything. Hope this helps. You pay £71.92 more in the end, but it's spread across 9 equal payments, and you've no disposal costs at the end.

[MikeGilbert]

Obviously the costs of such a thing are going to vary from contract to contract based on lots of variables but can anyone give me a really rough idea of what i can consider say 50 and 100 laptop to cost on a lease basis (be that the 3 year cost a 5 year cost or a yearly cost) I'm completely in the dark on figures at the moment

Variables, dontcha just love 'em...

If the laptops cost £333, so you get sort of 3 per £1k, then 99 would cost £33k, which you can get on lease for about £334 per £1k per annum, which is about £11,022 per annum, so you'd pay about £33,066 in total over 3 years.

Five year leases will cost more, as the Residual Value will be much, much lower.

If you want to hang onto the laptops after the three years, then you can generally make a one-off payment of a percentage of the annual payment (which is the RV, basically) to hang onto them.

The Residual Value is where the finance company makes its money.

HTH

Mike