Apple Help

[Grommit]

Hi

 

We are a PC School with 600 PC's and 9 Windows 2003 Servers..

 

My Boss likes the RM One and Viglen Omnipro Style PC and we have a few of those areund the site..

 

But now my Boss is being corrupted to the darkside and has been around to some Apple lovers home and likes the all in one style of the I-Mac..

 

And now with the Dual Boot I can't say that or programs won't run on it...

 

We have invested in Ranger and use it for the security of the network...

 

And have no Apples onsite..

 

Can Members please give me constructive arguements on why we shouldn't want Apples.. as I really do not need Apples in my life

[Geoff]

There's nothing wrong with Macs per say. However you can make constructive arguments for refusing them in school based on added support costs and lack of skills.

 

Do be aware that you can lock them down (if you purchase Mac OSX server) and they are a worthwhile addition to a school IMHO. There's nothing wrong with a bit of diversity.

[tech_guy]

Hi

 

We are a PC School with 600 PC's and 9 Windows 2003 Servers..

 

My Boss likes the RM One and Viglen Omnipro Style PC and we have a few of those areund the site..

 

But now my Boss is being corrupted to the darkside and has been around to some Apple lovers home and likes the all in one style of the I-Mac..

 

And now with the Dual Boot I can't say that or programs won't run on it...

 

We have invested in Ranger and use it for the security of the network...

 

And have no Apples onsite..

 

Can Members please give me constructive arguements on why we shouldn't want Apples.. as I really do not need Apples in my life

 

Unless your institution is doing multimedia/graphic design courses then I don't see the point in having them. I'd go outside and slit your wrists now if I were you ;-)

[Domino]

I'm a huge mac fan, and for design/video/sound production they're amazing, but like tech_guy said, unless you're doing that kind of thing they're probably not worth the aggro.

 

You'll need an osx server to get the best from them - and replacing drives, etc in an iMac is a total pain.

 

As Geoff has said - if you can get a machine with osx server on it and have them running locked down they're not a network issue - but it needs proper research and implementation

[webman]

Initial purchase cost, too - you can usually get double the amount of PCs for the same price you get macs.

 

Also is there a valid reason for the macs other than "they're pretty"?

[Guest Guest]

My arguement would be thats its effectively (nearly) doubling your workload and cost;

 

Double the software deployment methods/and cost

Double the OS deployment/and cost

Double the backup device costs and setup/use

Etc

 

Not to mention, as has already been said, the initial cost will be crippling compared to what you could get PC wise.

 

Plus with the dual boot arguement you've just doubled your OS and software costs per machine.

 

 

 

If your network is already ALL macs then yeah macs are fine, otherwise im yet to hear a good arguement for them.

[gaz350]

If you have ZERO investment in mac kit then the double costs argument would be the right angle.

 

One of the great advantages of having a multi platform network is it gives kids the skills to use a computer and not a GCSE in XP + Office 2003.

[webman]

You can have a multi-platform network at no cost if you use Linux or BSD. You don't need to overdose on apples to provide tranferable skills.

[Dos_Box]

Webman. You broke the site. Hang you head in shame for your glib posts and satanic sig.

 

*we are basing this assumption on the fact that you were the last one to post before it died.

[kingswood]

My arguement would be thats its effectively (nearly) doubling your workload and cost;

 

Double the software deployment methods/and cost

Double the OS deployment/and cost

Double the backup device costs and setup/use

Etc

 

Not to mention, as has already been said, the initial cost will be crippling compared to what you could get PC wise.

 

Plus with the dual boot arguement you've just doubled your OS and software costs per machine.

 

 

 

If your network is already ALL macs then yeah macs are fine, otherwise im yet to hear a good arguement for them.

 

I'm sorry but most of that simply isn't true.

 

Whilst the argument still prevails from techies (usually because they don't understand Mac OS X) that it is "only for design shops" or "not for the enterprise" or even "more expensive and harder to support" alternatives to Windows will not gain ground. And that's the same for Linux too. It simply isn't true. The only basis for an argument you really have is that to dual boot your licensing costs will go up. Storage is not an issue if you invest in some kind of NAS device, and the point about doubling software deployment methods/costs is really a mute one. How many times have you had to jump through tiny hoops to get software running on your Windows network?

 

I haven't had to worry about software deployment on OS X since getting ARD. Period. And if I want to I can create MetaPackages and get them out or I can put them into an image. Same as I would using Prism and Ghost together.

 

And how long does it take you to set up a backup device???

 

 

 

:?

[webman]

Wasn't me. Someone stole my password. I have allabys!! :oops:

[_Bat_]

Wasn't me. Someone stole my password. I have allabys!! :oops:

 

Lol, come on Craig, we all know you are a l33t h4x0r by night, innocent techie by day

[webman]

That's as maybe but I would never intentionally hurt the beloved EduGeek

[GrumbleDook]

We mustn't hurt the precious .... gollum, gollum

[Ric_]

I would have to disagree with those that are saying hardware costs are higher with Apple.

 

If you compare an iMac with the cheapest 'guy-down-the-road' computer then there is a big difference in cost but comparing them with a PC of similarly high build quality from a tier-one supplier such as HP, there is simply not the massive price difference you elude to. If you factor in software comparable to iLife you are unlikely to beat the price too!

 

I admit that Apple computers do seem to develop random problems which don't have common sense fixes and you will also have to learn a new skillset but IMHO this should not prevent you from buying them if they are the most suitable choice for a job - music and multimedia being the obvious choices.

[Grommit]

Thanks for the info Guys ... Well it looks as If we are going down the Apple Path.. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..

 

We already are having an XServer installed in the Music Block so that killed that arguement..

 

Anyway... learning is good...

 

What are good quick courses/Books for learning Apples and XServer ?

[webman]

Ric_: I see your point; but how many of us use HP/Dell and get expensive PCs which are the same price as macs?

 

We can get 30 mid-range (P4, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD) unbranded PCs for £9k and there's an IT suite that can run all apps on the network. The cheapest imac on the apple store is £680. I understand there will probably be education discounts, but how far will £9k get you buying apple crap?

[Ric_]

@webman: Believe it or not, many people do buy branded machines because they tend to be more reliable and you know what level of service to expect.

 

20" iMacs (2GHz Core2Duo, 1GB, 250GB hard disk) is approx. £639 but for that you get your 20" widescreen monitor and iLife which is good for KS3 music and media studies.

 

Like I said, they aren't for everyone and IMHO you should always use what fits the job best... be it Mac, PC, PDA, desktop, laptop... Macs just happen to be good at multimedia so why not use them for it?

[webman]

Why not? Well... the reasons mentioned here in this thread Added costs - purchase, training, configuration, time, working on issues if you're not familiar with how it works or want to integrate it. If you don't already have macs, why go to the extra hassle (if you're not familiar with it) and expense when simply buying additional software to run on the existing network will do just as well?

 

It seems people go for macs simply because they think they're the only solution to doing graphics, music, video etc. or because they supposedly "look good". I personally believe they're not very good value for money and the overheads of getting them up & running on an existing network far outweigh any possible advantages they may have.

[GrumbleDook]

The overheads of getting them up and running are not that high IME.

 

It cost us a Mac Mini and OS X Server (unlimited), and external storage device for images and ARD unlimited licence.

 

It took me less time to research and set up the deployment than it did for RIS to be setup (by an experience windows admin) or to migrate to WDS (by a team of 3).

 

I know some of it is down to personal experience but the educational experience that students get from having a different platform available to them readily outweighs any perceived increase in overheads.

 

Then again ... the reason why we do not have a linux solution rolled out in various areas is that the overhead of getting the setup right, retraining staff, etc is too high at the moment ... so I can see where you are coming from ... even though I know that introducing any new OS or system has cost and time implications.

 

For us it made sense for the other OS to be OS X as it fitted in with many other things we were doing.

 

I am not saying I am right and you are wrong ... just that I am right for *my* school *at this time*.

[FN-GM]

In my opinion Apple Macs are a good resource in schools, it will build the mac skills of the students so should they get a job in the feature they can say "yes i can use an apple mac". I wish i had that opportunity when i was at school all the machines were Windows. I have only just starting using an apple and i think they are fantastic and Apple maybe the way forward.

[webman]

Mac users would "be just as happy with crayons and finger paints!"

 

Best. BOFH. Ever.

[baxter]

Our school is the other way round, 2 thirds mac, 1 third PC...

 

Dual platform does double your skill set which is a good thing (for your CV) and a bad thing (for your workload)..

 

Macs have some great advantages in the areas of imaging etc, but also some disadvantages in the areas of service. All our Dells are purchased with 3 year onsite warranty. Apple doesn't provide this service in Europe, so all faulty machines have to go offsite for repair which can take some time if they can't get the parts..