stratisphere Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Sorry guys, this isn’t a post about a new kick-ass OS especially for us. I had a thought last night. If we could create our own OS, what would it be like? Replies on the back of a post please. If you want, it might help for readability to categorise anything as well. E.g. Security Be able to authenticate with a wide range of sources UI Must look pretty... but possible for new users (or Windows users) to adapt to very quickly. I think it'll be fun to see where this goes! (Oh, I’m not actually creating an OS and trying to do sneaky research... I was just bored last night!)
powdarrmonkey Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Is this a proposal or a dream? It's already been discussed elsewhere (I'm too lazy to dig the thread out).
stratisphere Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 Well, I don’t have the skills to do such a thing let alone the time to dedicate to a mammoth project like this. So at the moment, I guess it's a dream. I did have a look around but couldn’t find anything?
DSapseid Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 was talked about here http://www.edugeek.net/forums/new-project-ideas/17284-edugeek-linux.html
Hightower Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 If it was an OS that I had to role out to staff then it would need to be as close to Windows as possible in appearance (not bothered about pupils as they would be able to pick a new system up almost instantly). It would also need to support similar features to Windows i.e. being able to allocate packages to a group of machines from the server.
stratisphere Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 was talked about here http://www.edugeek.net/forums/new-project-ideas/17284-edugeek-linux.html Fair enough! Let this thread die in peace!
Friez Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 To write an OS from scratch you have an immense amount of work on your hands. You need a thorough understanding of C/C++/Assembler and how hardware works and you will need to cover all kinds of things including: The Kernel of the OS. Writing a bootloader and all the fun that goes into dropping it into the bootsector. Writing support for a massive range of hardware devices and enable them to work with your OS (Drivers e.t.c. for anything you can possibly throw in the box, literally millions of devices). Write a filesystem, or make your OS work with existing filesystems (ex2,fat,ntfs e.t.c.). Handle network operations to support existing protocols (TCP/IP, UDP e.t.c). This, and thousands more things are required to DESIGN an OS. You need to account for absolutely EVERYTHING before you start even coding anything. Once you have a solid idea on what to do, you need people to make it happen. Writing anything other than a crude simple limited OS for specific hardware will require a vast amount of time and work. Even then, with all that designing and coding you will need to test everything thoroughly and procede. I've not even touched the surface of the water with things an OS needs. Security, look + feel, customisability, e.t.c. An OS is an immense piece of software, this is why people work on them collaboratively and each work on a small chunk of it.
stratisphere Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 Sorry maybe my first post wasnt very clear. I have no intention of creating an OS. I simply had a random thought last night: "If techies had choice over what was in an educational OS... what would it be like" At most, this would have been a wish list. But as DSapseid mentioned... it's been discussed before. I think it'll be fun to see where this goes! (Oh, I’m not actually creating an OS and trying to do sneaky research... I was just bored last night!)
CyberNerd Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 You need a thorough understanding of C/C++/Assembler and how hardware works and you will need to cover all kinds of things including: The Kernel of the OS. Writing a bootloader and all the fun that goes into dropping it into the bootsector. Writing support for a massive range of hardware devices and enable them to work with your OS (Drivers e.t.c. for anything you can possibly throw in the box, literally millions of devices). Write a filesystem, or make your OS work with existing filesystems (ex2,fat,ntfs e.t.c.). Handle network operations to support existing protocols (TCP/IP, UDP e.t.c). you've not heard about Open Source then....
powdarrmonkey Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 There is also a thread about Windows 7 wishlists (again, I CBA to find the thread).
Friez Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 you've not heard about Open Source then.... You've not heard about reading then? this is why people work on them collaboratively and each work on a small chunk of it Sure, Linux is one of our more favourite Open Source OS's out there. But in the context of my original post: Open source operating systems are written by a great deal of talented designers, programmers and system architects. They are carefully designed in order to tackle the problems as I outlined above, and each person does their bit to just a small section of the overall product. My post was discussing the sheer scale of things that need to be considered to actually make an operating system, commercial or otherwise. It is no trivial thing to 'knock up' an OS, but I never said it was impossible. If it was impossible, we would not even be chatting on here today
stratisphere Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 Ok, this is turning into something from the SA forums. My original post was a what if. Simple as that. Please keep on topic (which is what would you like in an OS if one was being designed for edugeek people) if this is going to continue.
dhicks Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 If we could create our own OS, what would it be like? It would be like a web browser. No desktop, start menu, or anything else, just a tabbed web browser with up-to-date plugins (PDF, Java, Flash, etc). Then our day-to-day job would just involve making sure computers could switch on and boot this OS, everything else would be based on web servers. -- David Hicks
CyberNerd Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 My post was discussing the sheer scale of things that need to be considered to actually make an operating system, commercial or otherwise. It is no trivial thing to 'knock up' an OS, but I never said it was impossible. If it was impossible, we would not even be chatting on here today One of our ex-students 'knocked-up' a working operating system when he was in yr10. he maintained it for a couple of years but it's dead now. He did it using a linux kernel, then selecting the packages he needed. IIRC the only programming he did was for a custom package manager. Welcome to Linux From Scratch!
dhicks Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 I've not even touched the surface of the water with things an OS needs. Security, look + feel, customisability, e.t.c. An OS is an immense piece of software, this is why people work on them collaboratively and each work on a small chunk of it. Hmm - a thought, though: what about if you targeted a virtual machine? That way there's only one very specific set of "hardware" to interact with and write drivers for. If anyone's looking to put together their own Linux-based OS, then try Slax - lets you pretty much slot together packages on top of a basic system to do as you wish. -- David Hicks
Friez Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 (edited) One of our ex-students 'knocked-up' a working operating system when he was in yr10. he maintained it for a couple of years but it's dead now. He did it using a linux kernel, then selecting the packages he needed. IIRC the only programming he did was for a custom package manager. Welcome to Linux From Scratch! Something is hardly 'from scratch' if you're simply compiling source code that's already been written for you.... That source code is already a great deal of design and programming right there. All you do is type "make". No brownie points there imho! Although to be fair, congratulations on having a student that can actually compile code and possibly do the odd tweak here and there, but sorry it's not really from ground up. It's like having the source code of Microsoft Windows XP, Compiling it, changing a few theme things and claiming you've made a new operating system. You've not. As for coding for virtual machines (not strictly an OS), not done so but cannot comment, might be possible, then again it might not. Certainly, if you're developing from the ground up something like the XBOX or PS2/3 is likely more simple to develop an OS for than say a PC purely because the hardware is of limited selection (you only have to support a limited subset of devices). Imagine a network running on XBOXES Edited September 18, 2008 by Friez
CyberNerd Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Something is hardly 'from scratch' if you're simply compiling source code that's already been written for you.... Well Redhat, Novel, Oracle and Apple got away with it, and most of microsofts code is obtained by buying other companies. Like you say though, no-one writes an entire kernel and all its applications by themselves.
teejay Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 I'm kind of split in what I'd like, in some ways I would like as suggested earlier an OS which was just a web browser which you could use for VLE type content. However, what I find infuriating these days is that we can't let the kids have a good old fiddle like back in the early days of school computing. I remember the old RM 380z's, BBC's and such like which you could arse with to your hearts content and if you messed it up you just switched it off and back on again. Many a happy hour I spent writing a fractal generator in assembler at school and many a time did I completely hang the machine, but a quick switch off and back on again, reload your program and twiddle away again. OS's really have got too complicated and less bullet proof these days, so I would like something the kids can hack to there hearts content without the risk of causing any permanent damage.
dhicks Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 As for coding for virtual machines (not strictly an OS), not done so but cannot comment, might be possible, then again it might not. Yes, it would defiantly be possible - operating system kernels are just programs, written in the same way as any other bit of software. I thought otherwise, too, until I was actually required to write one (robotics course, developing for "BLT" board in Modula-2), then I realised how an OS kernel was just like any other program. Actually, that's probably still where most "proper" OS development is still going on - on embedded systems designed for robotics or similar. I seem to remember the new LEGO robotics system has had a couple of alternative operating systems written for it already. -- David Hicks
dhicks Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 However, what I find infuriating these days is that we can't let the kids have a good old fiddle like back in the early days of school computing. Heck, sure you can, and in exactly the same way as you did - give them a BBC/C64 emulator to play with. -- David Hicks
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